LIFE Podcast Show

[00:01] Dez: Welcome to the Life podcast, where we offer real hope to real people dealing with real life.

[00:08] Dave: We filter our thoughts through God's thoughts and our ways.

[00:12] Dez: Through God's ways, we pray. You're blessed by this podcast.

[00:16] Dave: Enjoy the show. We are back here, cash, living intentionally for eternity, people. We are back. And I'm joined I'm joined by my guy, the creepy crawler himself, the smoothest man in the land, my God, Dave, the levitating one. What's up, my brother?

[01:16] Dez: I thought he was going to get by without the levitation thing, man, but what's going on, dazz?

[01:22] Dave: I'm good, man. I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I'm doing good. We are here with another episode of the Life podcast. I missed you, man. And I missed this. I missed this. It feels nice.

[01:35] Dez: Yeah, it does, man. It's therapeutic in some ways for both of us just to get together, man, and talk about the issues that we always talk about. So excited.

[01:46] Dave: Good, man. Good. Yeah. So I think I want to introduce you all to a friend of mine, a friend of a friend. He's becoming a friend of mine. He is the pastor, the wise one. He joined us last week. He's going to be now a recurring host on the show. My guy, Mr. Eric Talbert.

[02:13] E: What's up? Hey, fellas. How you doing, man?

[02:17] Dez: You're doing? Good to have you back.

[02:20] E: Good to be back, man. We had such a good time last time. I'm just glad to be here. Glad to be here.

[02:26] Dez: And I'm glad that Desmond had the idea it to bring you on as a host, man. He asked me, and it was a no brainer. Yes, sir. Cool.

[02:36] Dave: Yeah, it was no brainer. You got to be a bad dude to do one guess and get off of the show.

[02:47] E: That's a record in my book.

[02:53] Dave: You got to be a bad dude to just be like, you know, you got to go ahead, come on. Forever. We need that brother. We need that brother.

[03:10] Dez: And all it did was, man, was to clarify or justify what I've been telling you all the time about Eric, you know, his wisdom and the way that he he can break down the Bible in life application, you know, it's a bless. It's been a blessing to me for years, and now I know it's going to be a blessing to everybody.

[03:33] E: All right, fellas, I'm a host now, so put me on the spot like this. I appreciate your brothers, too.

[03:42] Dez: The pressure is coming.

[03:47] Dave: You say, you better make me cry, get a little emotion. But I'm thankful for this opportunity. I truly am. And today we're going to be talking about something not heavy. But last episode, if you haven't checked it out, we talked about overcoming fear from Mr. Eric's book, Fear Not. He says, sometimes you don't need a sermon. Just one word, two words. Fear not. Life gets rough. It's nothing. Don't give up. It's okay. God is there, especially if we are in Christ, we are more than conquerors.

[04:23] Dez: Amen.

[04:24] Dave: So that was, that was a takeaway. And that meant fear. We do have fears. Just because we have these, these bodies that says we supposed to be able to protect ourselves and protect others, we still have fears, still have inadequacies, we still have doubts and failures. So that was just really encouraging. I keep listening to that podcast because there's so many good nuggets in there, man. So if you have not checked out episode episode twelve with Eric Talbot, I would pray that you would, because that was doesn't you can't miss that. We can't miss episode.

[04:58] E: Like the word said, god is not giving us a spirit of fear, but a power, love and a sound mind. Doesn't mean we won't have fears, but he's giving us power, love and the sound mind to overcome it.

[05:08] Dave: Amen.

[05:09] E: Every time.

[05:10] Dave: Amen.

[05:10] Dez: Amen.

[05:11] Dave: So it's been good. So today we will be talking about manhood overcoming divorce. Hot topic.

[05:32] E: Where'S the fan?

[05:36] Dave: Today we're going to be talking about divorce and how men overcome divorce. And I think that it's good for us to talk about this as men because this is something that happens especially, even in the church. The church is almost on the same pace as the world with divorce rates. And it's a problem. It's a problem. But if we are in Christ, we're crisis problem. We believe his messages, we must believe that we are his mess. But God can redeem the time and he can redeem those things and make our second part better than the first part and keep rewriting our story. So for our life point today, we had two passages of scriptures that my dad is going to read. One from Malachi, chapter two, verses ten through ten through 16. And then we want to take a pass of scriptures from Matthew 19, one through six, just to see what God says about divorce in the Old Testament. And let's see what he says about divorce in a new Testament because we serve an unchanging God. So that whenever you're ready.

[06:49] Dez: Okay. Breaking covenant through divorce. Again, this is Malachi 210 through 16. Do we not all have one father? Do we not? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another? Judah has been unfaithful, but the testable thing has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem. Judah has desecrated the sanctuary the Lord loves by marrying women who worship a foreign God. As for the man who does this, whoever he may be, may the Lord remove him from the tense of Jacob, even though he brings an offering to the Lord Almighty. Another thing you do, you flood the Lord's altar with tears, you weep and well because he no longer looks with favor on your offerings or accept them with pleasure from your hands. 14 you ask why it is because the Lord is the witness between you and the wife of your youth. You have been unfaithful to her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant. He has not the one God made you. You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth. The man who hates and divorces his wife, says the Lord. The God of Israel does violence to the one he should protect, says the Lord, or mine. So be on your guard and do not be unfaithful.

[08:35] Dave: Wow.

[08:44] Dez: And Matthew 19 you catch your breath, right, when you reading that man.

[08:51] E: It's like, oh, my goodness, I don't know.

[08:54] Dez: Jesus teaching about divorce. Matthew 19 now when Jesus had finished these saints, he went away from Galilee and entered the region of Judah beyond the Jordan, and large crowds followed him, and he healed them there. At first he's came up to him and tested him by asking, is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause? He answered, have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said, therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh, so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate. Amen.

[09:40] Dave: Thus says the Lord, you have just heard the reading of the word of God, right? And that can be heavy. That can be that can be extremely heavy.

[09:51] E: Look, keep going seven down to nine.

[09:57] Dez: Seven says, they said to him, why, then did Jesus why why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away? He said to them, Because of your hardness of art, moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality and murders, another commits adultery.

[10:29] Dave: Amen. Thank you. Good catch. I thought I said one through nine, I guess, right?

[10:35] Dez: I think you did.

[10:36] Dave: Yeah. Okay.

[10:37] Dez: I think you did, fellas.

[10:40] E: Yeah, that's what you got. Breathe on that one.

[10:44] Dave: You know, so we have Old Testament, we have the New Testament, we have God the Father and we have God the Son saying the same thing. Jesus going all the way back to Genesis. God made them male and female, female, male. He made them an image of God. And God is saying, Look, I hate this. I hate this. So let's dive in. Let's just go straight in. Mr. Eric, we'll start with you. Your first marriage. You've been divorced before. Can you tell us how long you were married the first time?

[11:19] E: Around seven years. Okay.

[11:21] Dave: And how old were you when you first got married?

[11:24] E: 24.

[11:29] Dave: 24. And your first marriage was your first known marriage? How long did it last?

[11:38] Dez: We were together for from 87 to 95. Okay.

[11:45] Dave: About eight years.

[11:45] Dez: About eight years. But we didn't get divorced for about another eight or nine years, but we were legally separated after in in 95.

[11:54] Dave: Okay. And how old were you?

[11:56] Dez: I got married at 22.

[11:58] Dave: Okay. All right. So before we start recording everybody out there, we were talking, and Mr. Eric said something that really struck me. He don't even know he said it, but he says no one gets married. Gets married, planning on getting a divorce.

[12:16] Dez: Amen.

[12:17] Dave: That really struck me. No one plans to get divorced when they get married. That's not the plan, right? So that's not the plan. It's a loaded question, but you could take it however you want. If that's not the plan. Mr. Eric, we'll start with you. Why is it so common?

[12:35] E: Well, first of all, I think most people, when they get married, they intend to try to make it work for whatever reason, and a lot of times, there's many different reasons when people get married. It can be a child. It can be they feel like they love the person. It's many different reasons. And unfortunately, we have all of these different ideas of marriages that come from so many different places, and we don't really always seek out God, how he sees it and what he will figure that out later on. But most of it is human expressions and feelings that we have going on when we get together. So it's about feelings. It's about what I see, what I know, where I came from, all of those different backgrounds. And so when people get married, they feel like, we can do this. But they jump right in and they start acting out what they feel they know versus taking out time to get to know person yourself so that the other person can get to know you. But we go straight to correcting the other person. And well, so and so does this. You need to do this. And so many other things start coming into the relationship that start making you go apart versus blending together. I can't blend with somebody that I'm not totally honest with who I am with, first of all. And most people and that's another thing before we even get that most people haven't even figured out them before they connect with another person, and then so they're trying to blend all together, and then kids come along, and when kids come along, it's like, oh, my gracious. Now we got to figure out kids, and we haven't even resolved us and what God has for us. And then so before you know it, we focus on what we have to do, and we move away from what we need to do. I say that again, we focus on what we have to do. I got to go to work. I got to do this, I got to do that. We focus on all of that and we move away from what we need to do and needing to get it to know and honestly connecting with one another about where we are at different phases. What is she feeling, why is she doing that? My wife now, I know how she's feeling, thinking all of that. But a lot of that came from studying her, learning her and her studying me and learning me. And we're not perfect or anything, but there's a lot of things I learned and I'm going to be honest, it was ten years in between me getting married again and getting divorced. I would tell anybody take that time to process why that did not work. If you are divorced now, let me also preference. I'm not encouraging anybody to get divorced. That is not why we're doing this. We're not trying to give you tools for what to do when you get no, I'm not saying that at all. I'm not saying that at all. But what I am saying is if you are in that position, don't just jump into something else thinking I'm going to do it better now. No, you need time. You need time with yourself. You need time with God and you need time to process what was wrong, not with them because you already rehearsed what was wrong with the other person. You rehearsed that plenty of times. You already know what was wrong with me.

[16:21] Dez: Where did I go wrong?

[16:24] E: I might be rambling right now, but this is part of what I learned in that process, learning what was and so that ten years in between there. I was raising my kids at the time, so I was able to put my attention into that too. So that helped and I didn't want to just jump out and try to establish another relationship because I wasn't ready. I was not ready. And so many people aren't ready to do that and they try to do that and it doesn't work.

[16:54] Dave: Amen a lot in there, brother. Apropos response. Yeah, that the people say same thing for you. None of us get married planning to be divorced, but why is it so common? What was your thoughts?

[17:21] Dez: Well, I'm going to piggyback on a lot of the things that Eric said because it's so true and it's so common. But one of the additives that we know is if you fail to plan, you plan to fail, right? So if we don't have a game plan, if we don't fully understand what we're getting into when we say we want to become one with another person, we're already behind eight ball, right? We don't have wise counsel if we're not firm in our foundation, if we truly don't know what unconditional love is and what it is to love and care and be compassionate and dying because that's what you have to do when you get married. So there's no place for selfishness and immaturity. And I think those are the two biggest things that you're going to find in any relationship that's struggling immaturity, no desire to grow. And selfishness.

[18:29] E: For grownups.

[18:30] Dez: Marriage is for grown ups. You can't be a powder and go to my room and slam the door type of person. Like Eric said, man, it takes all of your attention. People say a lot of times, merger is 50 50. No, merger is 100% 100%. You got to give it off, right? You know, 50 50. What are we doing here? You know? So, so, and, and since I've been divorced and since I've been because you know this, I'm big on relationships. I'm big on cultivating relationships and, and and nurturing relationships and establishing and maintaining relationships. And the one thing is work. And if you're not willing to work, if you're not willing to have those tough discussions, if you're not willing to be transparent, and if you don't know who you are, my goodness, how can somebody else learn you if you don't even know who you are? You're living a lie. Most of the time. We're hard and stuff. We're not really being truthful with who we are, and we're not giving a true representation of who we really are, then it's hard for anybody to love a lot. So I think the biggest thing is not being prepared for marriage. It comes from our upbringing, and it comes from not fully understanding the covenant that you're entering into. And you can't understand a covenant without knowing who God is.

[20:17] E: Just to add to that too, because when we're going through, many of us turn to different things to solve problems. And if you didn't really learn how to go to God when you were single, you're really not going to go when you get married because he's involved. It's important to have that relationship with God because the world has so many different exit strategies and exit plans from marriage, because the mindset is I remember one time somebody said, have you gotten married yet? And this was like five years out. Why don't you just get somebody married if you don't work? Divorce really that's simple. But we have to understand that the world's mindset is totally different than God's mindset. And if you're looking at the world for understanding and how to deal in a spiritual marriage, it's not going to work. They are going to give you the wrong advice. And most of the time, God is going to give you some kind of answer to resolve because he wants you to be together. You know what I'm saying? You got to fight against Him in order to not even be together, because he's always coming up with how to help you stay together. Even in salvation, he's always coming up with ways to keep you connected to Him.

[21:50] Dave: Come on.

[21:51] E: So we got to push away from Him to even do our wills and what we want to do, you know what I'm saying? It's like, Jonah, man, I got to run. I don't want to do that. You know what I'm saying?

[22:03] Dave: That's too hard.

[22:03] E: Yeah, that's too hard.

[22:06] Dave: I remember I was working at Fortis College, and I remember this to your point about the world, right? And I remember I was talking to this guy. I was upstairs, like, waiting for my shift, and he came in. He had, like, a baby with him. He was like, he's waiting on his wife. I'm like, oh, you married. So we just started talking. We vibrant. And then as we kept talking, I can tell, like, he was a businessman. He said he had, like, this business. He was a construction worker. He had this money. So it started turning towards that, and then out of nowhere, I was like, oh, man, that's your child? He was like, no, this is my wife grandson. I think he was an older man. I was like, okay. I said, how long you all been married? He was like, We've only been married for about, like, three years, and I think I finally found the one. I was like, what do you mean by that? He was like, what was my first wife? She wasn't ready for what I had, and she didn't want to really participate and support my dream. To my second wife, I felt like she supported me, but she ain't want kids. And he said to my third wife, I felt like she was down for whatever, but she just wasn't. Like, she didn't keep herself up. Then when I got to my fourth wife, wow. I was like, okay, I'm done with marriage. I ain't never marrying again. Like, this is for the birds. I'm just going to be single. He said, but she just grabbed my heart, you know what I mean? He get deep. I mean, he gets deep. He said, on my fifth wife, God, he's talking about I was looking at this dude, like, my mouth is, like, drooping. He's confidently talking about his fifth wife. So then after that, he was just like and he said, well, now I think I found it. I'm on my six, and I think.

[23:51] Dez: I found my goodness.

[23:53] Dave: So just to that point, that's a real thing with you saying that's a real life. This really happened. I'm looking at this guy like you foo every single time it was about what she wasn't doing.

[24:06] Dez: Yeah. My goodness.

[24:11] E: That's why I said what I did about that time and that space in between, because I I was I was complaining. I never forget, man. I was complaining to somebody about my ex at the time. I was just complaining, complaining, complaining. And they said, well, what was wrong with you? And that's why I said earlier, it takes it on take a lot. It don't even take a whole sermon when you and God, it'll be a statement that will stop you in your tracks. And from that point on, I stopped talking about her and I started asking myself what was wrong with me, what was going on with me. And God took me through a whole process of looking at myself and what I brought to the table that wasn't helpful, wasn't good, wasn't Godly. It worked out best. It wasn't God's best. But I tell you, I do thank God for forgiveness. And and one of the things that is so important and I'll encourage any brother who's out of your sister that's divorce, if you're saved, you're still God's child. And I think it's important for people to remember you are still his child.

[25:21] Dez: Amen.

[25:22] E: And he still loves you. You may be divorced, but you are not cut off from Him and thrown away from Him. He still loves you. He said about the children of Israel, I'm married to the backslide. Come on, you know, so there's still that connection, and you can start all over again. He said, there's one sin and you're done with that black female against the Holy Spirit. If you find yourself in a bad place, like divorce, and it is a bad place, but don't give up on your relationship with God because he can walk you through that entire process. That's the most important relationship you got, is that relationship with God.

[26:03] Dez: Amen. Can you say that something to you alonzo said something to you a while back about why did when you get upset or there's trouble, you walk away from God? When you turn your back on God.

[26:20] Dave: I said that?

[26:21] Dez: Yeah, you said that. Pastor said that to you. And I was just thinking about that when Eric was talking as Christians, that's.

[26:29] Dave: Pretty much saying he was actually talking about you. Well, maybe he was talking about me. It's hard to me because it's always about me, but he was just saying, what is it about? Because your situation with your wife and your children, or specifically your wife, because she's not treating you wrong. Why do you turn around and treat God wrong? Why? Because this is happening in your life because your wife is not giving you what you want. You turn around and say, I'm going to abandon the Lord my God, why are you doing that? And that's kind of like the common things for men and women, I think. Well, because I guess it's like you gave look, come on, Adam, the woman you gave me, and now she ain't living up to what I wanted to be. And Z is your fault.

[27:24] Dez: Right.

[27:27] Dave: I think that's a big thing. Yeah, I think all those points was well taken, and I'm learning a lot. Trust me, fellas, I'm learning a whole lot. So one thing that I think the Lord is used to kind of galvanize my thoughts when it comes to marriage and pursuing someone that you love. I think the one thing that I've learned is if you want a relationship to prosper, pursue selflessness. But if you want to crumble relationship, lead it to decay and destruction, pursue selfishness. So if you can kind of like wrap up in one word or summarize in one word. Dad, we'll start with you. Mr. Even on it. Even if they go first every time. So I got to switch it up. But if you could summarize what led to your divorce in one word or one theme, what would you say?

[28:25] Dez: Selfishness. No doubt. Selfishness. And again, it manifests itself in a lot of different ways. You can be selfish in a way that you don't even want wise counsel. Right. You can be selfish in the fact that you don't want to grow. This is who I am, except me as I am. And the selfness also come in the fact that you are not willing to put the relationship first, which means the kids and the whole relationship, that you're willing to be selfish and say, I'm done. I'm washing my hands of this. You're wrong. This was never a good idea. And I'm willing to walk away and not understanding the repercussions that it's going to have on the kids, on your future, and just on your spirit. Because if you're already struggling, then you lose something like that, especially for a man. It open ups a whole world of foolishness if you don't stay connected. So selfishness for me.

[29:43] Dave: So you wrapped it up, everything. One of the main calls was just outright Dogget, just downright, just selfish.

[29:52] Dez: It's all about mix. I want to talk about me.

[30:08] E: Because.

[30:09] Dave: It take two to ten.

[30:19] Dez: Especially if people wanted you were willing to fight.

[30:25] Dave: That's real. That's real. Mr. Eric. What you got?

[30:31] E: I did all the selfishness. But I'll also say, I think in my situation, the inability to guard your marriage from outside influence. The scripture says the little foxes destroy divine. And there's so many different things that are coming to attack your marriage, and you can open the door in the gate and let a lot of things in.

[31:06] Dez: No doubt.

[31:06] E: Friends, family, opinions, a lot of different people come in, say a lot of different things in. Before you know it, you're just gone. I mean, even TV shows. Yeah, I'm not pointing anything, but I remember coming home, seeing Divorce Court on TV. It's like, okay, where are we going? You like this put in your hands. But those kinds of things we laugh at, and we think it's whatever, but what is feeding your spouse? What is feeding your opinions about life and what's going on? Reality TV shows or whatever the case may be, these things have impact. We don't think they do, but they have impact. And so whatever is feeding you is really adjusting your thoughts about your relationship and your marriage. So I think that was it not guarding well. Neither one of us guarding our marriage well and recognizing that it's it's it's two in there. And we have to focus on staying connected. And I have a friend of mine said something that I thought was very profound, pastor friend. He said, Me and my wife is me and her against everything and everybody else. And I thought that was profound when he said that to me, because it's true, the children, everything, yes, because everything can come in and get you off course, but you have to that's what becoming one is. It's me and you against everything else. So we have to remember that. And I think that was one of the biggest problems that I think we had.

[32:56] Dave: Hey, man, you talked about isolating yourself and you talked about I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear what nobody say, I'm doing this and we can do that without saying a word. All that's in the heart.

[33:12] Dez: Yes.

[33:12] Dave: All right. Proverbs 18. One actually has a lot to say about what you said that says, whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire and he breaks out against all sound judgment. A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

[33:33] E: Wow.

[33:34] Dez: That's in the book.

[33:35] Dave: That's in the Bible.

[33:40] E: It's all in the book.

[33:41] Dez: That's in the book.

[33:43] Dave: That's in the Bible. And I think this is this has become yeah, I will laugh, but this has become like a life verse to me, that one. And Proverbs 30, it's humiliating and it's humbling, but it's really good because the more I pursue my wife and try to be a godly husband and a godly father, the more I see how who's adequate for these things. Man, I need a gospel. I am so freaking selfish. Right. And I read this proverb, you know, it's 31 proverbs. It's usually 31 days in a month. So it's always good to read a proverb day and you'll get through it in a month. So I was reading this proverb, this Proverbs 30, and it's by Agar. He says, the man declares, I am weary, O God. I am wary, O God. And one out, verse two. Surely I am too stupid to be a man. I have not the understanding of a man. I have not learned wisdom, nor I nor have I knowledge of the Holy One. That's like a verse to me, like, I am 1 hour. I'm a stupid man. It's not beating myself up, but it's acknowledging I don't have the answers. And when I talk to men, they have all the answers. Let's go back to that dude that's been divorced six times. He really thought he was wise. He fool, but he thought he had all the answers. Six wives when he isolated himself and he became a fool. I don't want to be like that. So it's wisdom in wild's counsel. So did you want to jump in real quick?

[35:28] E: No, I was going to say and we talked about this, I think in the last session, What people say to you is not always what they're saying or feeling about themselves when they're by themselves, too.

[35:41] Dave: Yeah.

[35:42] E: Because you know you have to live with you.

[35:45] Dave: Come on.

[35:45] E: And you can make up certain statements that make you look good to people, but when you go home and you are by yourself, you know something is wrong. God wired system this way. That's how we get to repentance. Because he allows mirrors to see ourselves. His word. If you and his word, it's going to show you you're going to know what's on. You just have to be very like you said, you have to be very arrogant, self centered, and prideful to not recognize your faults and your problems. But I don't care how much you tell me you don't when you go home, you know where you are.

[36:29] Dave: Come on.

[36:29] E: You know exactly where you are.

[36:31] Dave: Come on.

[36:33] E: Yeah. You know where you are when you get home. And I think we have to be honest with ourselves and then be honest with God, because we can't even be honest with God if we're not going to be truthful with ourselves, what we really feeling. And a lot of times we don't.

[36:50] Dave: When you all were in it and be honest, but you all were in it when you kind of casino right on the wall like, okay, this is what we had it honestly, what were y'all feeling that what were you really feeling when you realized, okay, this is not working. She's adamant about getting divorced. Tell me raw and honor, try to go back to 90, 95, just getting out the military, got these three kids trying to figure it out. Like raw, unadulterated, undaunted thoughts. What what were you?

[37:24] Dez: I felt betrayed. I felt betrayal. I felt that I had made a lot of sacrifices. Being in the military is tough. And I was gone a lot, and I was gone because she didn't want to go. I had orders and I had these plans and she never wanted to go anywhere. So that meant that I was gone away from my family a lot. And I think I made all of these sacrifices for my family. And then when I was finally home, when I decided to get out the military, mainly because I was tired of being away from my family, she decides she wants to take the family away. So I felt betrayed not saying that I've done everything right. I have my own personal struggles. We had our struggles, but at the same time, I felt like now we could really work on us getting to know us, and she didn't want that because I think ultimately the control that she thought she had, she didn't have when I was home all the time, and that just changed her perspective on the marriage. So I just felt betrayed, man. That's the one thing I felt. I felt like I was let down. And as in Malcolm, x. I was bamboozled. I was let us run. Because all I kept saying through our early merch was, I don't want to wait till the kids are grown and gone to get to know who you are. Which means I wanted to spend quality time with this woman, and she didn't feel like that was important. So to get back on point, I just felt betrayed, man, because I felt like I made a lot of sacrifices and it didn't mean anything in the end.

[39:27] Dave: I think that's fascinating in two ways, and it speaks to the psyche of a man mentally, I guess a bit buzzword is mental health, but I heard this a long time ago and I think it still rings true. It says, thank you, Lord. Women attempt suicide more than men, but men commit more suicide than women. So women get to a brink and something in them says, I got with these kids, I got people depending on me. But men, when they get there, when they're soul, right? A hope deferred makes the heart sick is what Proverb says. A hope deferred makes the heart sick. So you got that sickness of heart, of you lose hope. Who can live without hope? You can live without water. You can go some days without food. You go some days without talking to your best friend. Man can't live without hope for so long when he doesn't see any light at the end of the tunnel. It's the reason why dudes in jail are angry, why they lash out and do what they do because they don't have any hope. Someone's taking their life away from them. And when you say portrayal and you talk about all those things while you was dealing with that, how did you deal with that? How did you deal with the beatrix? Honestly, like.

[41:00] Dez: I struggled bad. I did. I struggled bad. And back then, this whole talk about men's mental health and stuff wasn't going on. We weren't talking about that. And as a man, I was kind of ashamed of the way that I was feeling as a father, that I was in such a dark place, because I felt like everything had been taken away from me. And literally everything had been taken away from me. I lost my house and I lost I wasn't making any money because the court took all my money. So I really felt like I felt hopeless. So I struggled, man, for a long time. But praise be to God, I had people around me who were strong in the faith and they wouldn't let me stay there. And I had a heart to heart with Alonzo one day, and he said he said, man, you rely on your intelligence way too much. You believe that you can think your way out of anything. And he said, you're going to drive yourself crazy. But then he said, I dare you to try, Jesus. I dare you to try, Jesus. And I think that was the start of my recovery right there, was when I started seeking wise counsel. I started getting into the Word, and I started understanding the Word, and I knew that God had a plan for my life, man. And I knew that I had to not only believe in Him, but as we talked about the last time, that I had to trust Him, and people just kept telling me that he will restore the ears. So I did start seeing the light at it at the tunnel. I did start seeing the hope. And most importantly, I wanted to have a relationship with my kids that would outlast the situation, if that makes sense. I'm not going to let this ruin that. No matter what I was struggling with, what I was going to that was my focus, was my relationship with my kids and cultivating that relationship with my kids. But to say it, man, I struggled and just having people around me that really knew God and trusted God and loved me enough to challenge me and to hold me accountable, that helped a lot. That's the reason why I'm here today, because there were some dark days why there was some dark days, literally, there was dark weeks where, you know, I couldn't put it together, you know, because it was a long time and I couldn't put it together. I came to a .1 time, man, where it was just like, wake up, breathe, breathe, get up, walk, wash yourself, you know, literally basic stuff, man, because there were days there were days there were days of time where I was in bed. I was just in bed because I felt useless and I felt hopeless because I felt like I had nothing to offer my kids, and I felt like I had swindled so many opportunities by sacrificing so much to be in a better place. So, yeah, mantal, health is the mental health struggle is real, and I really don't think that women truly understand what damage they can do to a man that wants to be a father. Not all men want to be a father, you know? Yeah, but those of us who want to be a father, those who want to be involved in our kids lives, and the way that these courts give the women so much control over that, man, it's it can leave you hopeless. It really can if you're not a fighter and if you're not willing to go to extra mile and make sure that that doesn't happen to your family. So, yeah, it was some dark days.

[46:02] Dave: Were you a Christian? You were walking through that.

[46:07] Dez: I was at that time, I was born again. I had yeah, I had committed my life to Christ, but I wasn't practicing it. I was on it to my life.

[46:19] Dave: It's almost like nominal by profession only, right? Not in practice.

[46:23] Dez: Not in practice.

[46:24] Dave: Like a functional atheist.

[46:27] Dez: Exactly.

[46:28] Dave: I hate it. Where I'm just saying that's true.

[46:32] Dez: I think the last time we talked, I don't know if we got it on the recording last time. Eric, I said, when did you.

[46:43] E: At.

[46:43] Dez: What point did you become intentional about your walk with crime? You know what I mean? Because that's a part, I think, that we all go through. We, as pastors always say, we become saved for fire insurance because we don't want to go to hell. Right? But at some point, we realize that we are reliant on God and we have to be intentional about this walk. So we start putting putting things into place to help us to to on this journey.

[47:13] Dave: Yeah.

[47:13] Dez: You know? So yeah. So I think probably in early 2000s was when I finally really said I got to trust God because this roller coaster was killing me.

[47:30] Dave: Somebody prayed and had me on their mind. Also, to that point, I'm just thinking about Zacharia, and he says, when Uncle nauseal challenges, you put way too much stock in your intelligence. And I was just intelligence. And I was just thinking about Zachary saying, man, this thing is not by might, it's not by power, but by the spirit of God. And that's how Christian walt, it ain't about our intellect, bro. If it was, Paul would have been more of a beast than he was. It ain't about that. He said, Man, I boast him out weakness. That's when I see God's strength. But I don't want to dilute that point too much. But Mr. Eric thank you, Bro. I was very undaunted and just raw. Mr. Eric, what was it like for you walking through those days when you realized, man, this is it, seven years of my life just gone. Wow.

[48:33] E: Well, I think for me and the whole situation, I had done so much before we were married, and then when we got married again, like I said, you know, okay, now it's time to do what I'm supposed to do. So I was involved with a lot of things. Church stuff, work, life, everything just gone. And I believe, especially with the help of the outside influences, she just got tired, she checked out, and I came home one day and all the stuff was gone, all of that. And matter of fact, a year after she filed for the divorce and maybe a few months later found out she was married. So it wasn't even like, okay, well, we're going to try to work. We work on this here. That's not going to happen. I had three kids at the time, and I had the kids, and, man, I'm telling you, I don't think I've ever felt more like a failure in all my life. You just feel like a failure. Not only did I feel myself, but God, my children, my kids, just a failure. And it was like, there's no way I thank God for my kids because I feel my kids help save my life to a degree.

[50:25] Dez: No doubt. No doubt.

[50:29] E: Many times, putting them in different schools and stuff like that. It was like, I can't do this. I was sitting in the closet and crying while they would sleep. Say, I can't do this. But it was something about we have no idea what we can do until we get to a place where we can't do. And then God started showing me, I am your strength. I am your strength. Lean on me. And it was to a point where it was like, I don't even know how, but I had to. If the kids came running in the room, I had to. Hey, how are you all doing? I had to still be, dad, everything is okay. Couldn't share all of that, but it was so much of that. But I thank God because he taught me what it was. When you know the scripture, he's a friend that stick it closer than the brother. He really was my friend, man. He walked me through that process, man. He really did. And different people and I thank God for different but maybe it was pride. I don't know what it was. You still was trying to act like everything was okay with friends. I'm good. Those famous words, and I'm good. But I wasn't. And that's why I say I know what that is. To get home and really be real. No, I'm not in the public, I'm good, but get home and be, no, I'm not. But he walked me through that process and I just thank God for my kids. He knows what to do. And I think she was married for like maybe six years or something like that for a while. She was married already. And so it got to that point where it's like I wasn't trying to get married again, but it was like not going back there. What am I going to do? I don't know how this is supposed to work out, but that's not an option, right?

[52:54] Dave: Yeah.

[52:58] E: On his grace.

[52:59] Dave: It's sufficient, bro. Yeah.

[53:01] E: I wasn't even looking. And I was in church one Sunday and that's when my wife is a married to now. Just came in. She came to visit her mother. The mother was a part of our church and I met her and we've been talking ever since. Man. Wasn't looking. But I feel the Lord just brought her right to me. So I thank God for being a God of the second chance man he is. And you do have to trust Him enough to embrace second chances. But I believe he is. And I'm going to tell you the scripture that helped me was I had to repent. You got to repent.

[53:39] Dave: Come on.

[53:40] E: That's how you really repent, to recognize I was wrong. Once I was able to repent, I believe God is a God of sanction. Think about David. You all know when he messed up with bathsheba and everybody knows he messed up with Bathsheba. It wasn't that he just went away from Bathsheba and went on, but when Nathan addressed him by what he did, the Bible says he repented to God and that's who he got it right with, God, not everybody else. And so even though he stayed with Bathsheba, the woman that he messed up with God because he forgave Him, he blessed their next child come on. To be the king of Israel.

[54:25] Dave: Solomon why?

[54:26] E: Because he had restored right relationship with God.

[54:30] Dave: Come on.

[54:31] E: That's the most important thing. And I think sometimes we want to make it look right or make it right with people. But where is that relationship with God? Because when it's restored with Him, he can give you that second chance and you can embrace that grace of that second chance, but it has to be right with Him, and he'll let you know in your spirit, hey, son, I love you. I knew that was going to happen before it happened, but my grace is sufficient, you know, and again, I didn't come out of it to get into something else, but that was my situation and how it worked that way. Now, there are some people that may have a different one. The Lord brought you back together, full circle type, full circle type thing, but I can't live somebody else's story. I have to trust God to work my life out the way he's working it out.

[55:25] Dave: And even to your point, what you're saying is so clear. You're saying, look, I'm not advocating for divorce. No, I'm not saying like, no, you you don't be listening this and like, okay, yeah, I can do this. No, that's not what we're saying. I remember, I don't know if Tim Keller said it, but again, in context, I pray you just hit my in context, he said, the Lord has a way of stripping everything that you think you need so that you see the Christ so that you see that Christ is everything you really need. I will strip everything that you think you need to show you Christ, that Christ is the only thing you really need. And listen to you brothers, your stories. That's why I'm so intrigued on, like, where was God in the midst of your grief and your heartache? Did you take your pain to the Lord or did you take it to I don't want to get too specific, but was it other women? Was it like I don't have to answer this question, but I'm just saying what I'm saying is if you don't take it to God, you're going to take it somewhere oh, yeah. That somebody's going to feel or someone is going to get your pain. So the temptation you had your kids dad was kind of getting us sporadically. So if you're not careful, thankfully you had the wherewithal to still be gracious towards your kids and know they going through some stuff because there's angry men out there that's left with those kids in their life as hell after that. Because they just angry that the houseman is angry that mom left, that my wife left. She with somebody else. The kids angry that mom left us for another set of kids. It's just anger. And we know God's righteousness doesn't come out of human anger, bra. So it's just like, I'm always intrigued on, like, what if it's not God that you turn into? What is it? But I'm not going to make you answer that question. I'm not going.

[57:55] E: All right. No, I think there were many different to be totally transparent about it. I think the God part, he was there, but the natural part was hurting so bad that I was numb, and I would maybe hit and I don't know. This part. I'm saying, but why you asked me this is why am I answering this?

[58:27] Dave: But anyway, I know how to get out of people, but I don't know what to say.

[58:33] E: You try things. You try, but none of it works. Like alcohol or you do certain things, and it's not working, and you recognize, this ain't it. You go out on dates or whatever the case may be.

[58:48] Dave: I got it.

[58:48] E: And you realize this ain't it. You know, and again, like I said, fortunately, I had my kids. So you're not doing things on a regular because they're right there in the house. But I do say this. The one thing that I learned, and this is why I tell anybody that's going through a divorce and has children, you have no way of guarding them from emotional hurt.

[59:19] Dave: Okay?

[59:20] E: It is no way. And I don't care how involved you are. There's no way, because what, they're processing their children, and they have no way of processing a broken home, even if you do counseling or whatever the case may be, please, if you have children, really consider them seriously.

[59:43] Dave: Come on.

[59:43] E: Because there's no way to process what a child feels when mom and dad are no longer together, no matter what you feel about your wife, no matter what you feel about your husband, that is mom and dad. And if they are together as a family, that's all they want to know. And you are challenging them. Hear me when I tell you, you're challenging them in their relationship with God. Because I even heard one of my children say, well, I prayed to God in a session that I was in there in Sunday school. I prayed to God to put my parents back together, and he didn't. So now he's feeling like, why didn't God do what I asked Him to do? So we don't just break away and just get better and get scot free. Now your children are influenced and impact, and this is one of the reasons why I wanted to do this, to warn people, don't ever make that decision off anybody else's life. You go to God and you find out what God has to say because you don't know the effects. And sometimes those kids will run to gangs, they'll run to sex with a lot of other people because they're trying their best to recover from an adult decision that they don't know how to process. And we got to think about that. That's a part of that process too.

[01:01:21] Dave: I'm going to cut you off. I'm going to lose it.

[01:01:24] E: Okay, that's cool.

[01:01:25] Dave: The Lord, we read it earlier, that one flesh he talks about, the husband and wife is one flesh. So think about like a Siamese twins. They stuck together. They're literally sharing a body. And imagine a cruel doctor coming in and saying, we're going to separate you by force and rips them apart, tries to rip them apart. And if he can actually accomplish it, how much damage does that leave? This scar for life. Marriage is like that. You literally ripping more the fabric of what God is calling where God is trying to do this. I'm pushing my fingers together. He's trying to do this. Satan and people and your selfishness is trying to do this. And if that happens, it's going to be a ****** situation. No one comes out of divorce unscathed, bro. Why? Because here we go. It's not truth. It's not God's original intent for marriage. So when we don't do what God says, it's going to lead to the three DS. Decay, destruction, death, decay of your family, destruction of your legacy, death of relationships. God can restore it. We have hope. But is it what God would originally want to know? But that's the whole world, right? All creation has grown. But one day, Romans eight says God will restore it to new heavens and a new earth, but in the midst of it while we wait. It's painful, bro. Oh, man, it's painful on a lot of levels. So I disagree with you as saying that level. And we can talk another episode about how it affects children and stuff like that. I don't want to get up to all of that right now, but thanks for sharing those things you turn to without being too cut you off.

[01:03:30] E: We might do an edit on it. Don't worry about it. But anyway, I know we're going to talk about the kids with the other one, but an analogy that I use with that is the old school bookends. If you have your books in between, the old school book ends. When you pull those book ins away, they're the parents, the books are the kids. What do they do? They fall to the left. Come on. Right?

[01:04:01] Dave: Come on.

[01:04:02] E: Because the book ends are gone. Even if you just take one, there's a whole space that's not holding up. Yes, God comes and he does what he does, but that's what happens when you pull the family apart like that. You know there's a falling and you have and it takes a lot. Thank God. That his grace, man. I'm telling me his grace is real and he gives you the wisdom and the grace to restore. But it takes time. It takes time. And a lot of damage is done. A lot of damage is done.

[01:04:36] Dave: It's tough. We want to do like a Part 2345 because you can't do all of it in one.

[01:04:46] Dez: No.

[01:04:47] Dave: I'm going to leave you with the last word of like.

[01:04:58] E: What are you buying?

[01:05:00] Dez: Right? Bring it on, brother. Bring it on.

[01:05:03] E: Bring it on.

[01:05:11] Dave: My dad got little eyes. His eyes. We're going to let you have the last word. Row, what were some things that in the midst of your pain, feeling betrayed, feeling like a failure, if you don't mind sharing, if you didn't turn to God, what did you turn to?

[01:05:36] Dez: Well, any time you have, I guess you can unresolve sin.

[01:05:42] Dave: Like habitual sin.

[01:05:44] Dez: Habitual sin. The things that I struggle with before I got married, the thing that I struggle with while I was married was only magnified during that time after I got after the divorce, after the separation. Because the dangerous thing is when you don't have the spirit of conviction, when you're not even convicted about the stuff that you're doing, you know? So the things that I struggle with, not just I lived there for a long time, those are the things I turned to. Jumping in and out of relationships based off of sex. That was amazing, right? My relationship was based on sex, physical attraction and things like that and not having any type of weight to the relationship. So just jumping from relationship to relationship and continue struggling with the things that were on me from day one, those were the things that I ran to, and again, not truly understanding the destruction that it was causing because those are some time wasting practices, brother. You waste so much time that you're never going to get back. So that was time that I was taken away from. Of course I won't spend the time with God.

[01:07:18] Dave: Just pursue your sin, right? Yeah.

[01:07:20] Dez: That's real distracted. Not spending real quality time with my kids. My professional life was struggling because I wasn't going to work the way I supposed to, you know, and give me a reason not to go.

[01:07:38] Dave: Back.

[01:07:39] Dez: Praise be to God that we had sorry managers.

[01:07:49] Dave: Don't worry about that.

[01:07:50] Dez: What do you want me to do? But yeah, man, I spent my time with a lot of foolishness, man, to no gain. It was just lost time, wasted time, a lot of bonding with things that I hadn't opened as bonding my spirit with my soul. And it took a lot of work to come back from that. It took a lot of work to come back from that. But changing your focus, focusing on the things in God and taking your focus off your circumstances, that just helped me a lot man, and getting some type of accountability, letting people know what I was going through, okay. So that they knew the right questions to ask, and they're just to challenge you to do better and having a desire to want to do better.

[01:08:46] Dave: You were living intentionally?

[01:08:47] Dez: Living intentionally?

[01:08:48] Dave: Well, at that time, you were not.

[01:08:49] Dez: Living I wasn't intentionally, but again, the wise man said to me, he said he heard my struggles. You heard what I was going through. And he said, So what practical things can we put into place to move forward from it? And that started my journey to living intentionally, knowing the things I had to stay away from, knowing the type relationships I had to stay away from, knowing the things that I had to do daily come on. To stay away from certain things, knowing the things I had to do daily to stay connected to God. Living intentionally for eternity. That's where it started.

[01:09:35] Dave: Amen. It's a pleasure hearing you, brothers. I'm two years in, and I hear where you all have come from gives me courage and hope that it's wisdom and hanging amongst the wives. So I'm just glad and privileged I can be here. And that just to your story, man. It just shows when Romans one is constantly talking about when you serve and pursue worthless things, you become worthless yourself. But if you pursue worthy things, you become worthy. Most worthy thing you can pursue is God in his glory. And in that, your life is restored. You don't feel like failure. You know you're doing something. You're committing yourself to the Lord. You commit all your gifts, and you're storing it for Him, and you know that it has eternal revenue to it. So now you're not affecting just eternally, but you're also affecting time, because what you're doing right now is affecting time. A young man and probably on the brinks. And one thing I love about my Jesus is that America has kind of painted Jesus as this pristine, just glass house. But Jesus gets in the muck and the mire of his people. He is there at your lowest moment, and he's literally saying, just come and say something. I see it. And you're like, I can't talk to Jesus about that. And he's like, I already know. This is the same one that says, Come on, man. I know every hair there's numbering on your head. How much do I care about you? I didn't die just to be like I did it. He died to be intricately, a part of every detail in your life. And I still struggle with that. I can't tell Jesus my real thoughts, and that's where most of us are. We held captive by our feelings and our emotions in our circumstances, because we're not really being honest with Jesus. We're not going to Him and saying, I'm angry. I'm disappointed. She's not doing this, she's not doing that. Because, yes, it's true. When you. Talk to Jesus most likely ain't going to talk to you about your wife. It's going to be you. Ain't going to talk to you about your kids. He's going to be you coming to him acts and prayers like, Lord, I need wisdom him to love her, right? Oh, he'll talk to you about that. But if you go into him, Lord, change your Lord, change it, bro. He going to say, I'm going to change you.

[01:11:45] E: Yeah, there you go.

[01:11:46] Dave: Because if you don't change, I still need you to reflect my Lord.

[01:11:49] Dez: Come on.

[01:11:50] Dave: Still need to reflect Christ's likeness in your life. And I'm preaching to myself, but I'm not preaching nobody else. But I've seen like that's what it is. It's about conformity. I think all the Christian life can be wrapped up in Romans eight, I think it's 23. But we are supposed to be conformed to the image of his son Jesus Christ, who never, ever, ever thought about himself. It was always about the glory of the Father to the praise of the Father and for other people all the time, every time. And the one time he got to the brink of ask for somebody, he merely says, but not my will. That's what we supposed to be pushing towards. And you all was hitting that. You are honest. You were frank, I appreciate you. Brothers, we got to do like a part 234567 of this. I appreciate you. The past story of wisdom got my man. That Levitates, the smoothest man in the land, the creepy crawl. So David bought the noise. This has been the life podcast where we felt to our thoughts. Through God's thoughts, we try to seek our ways. Through God's ways, we try to know God's truth. Because he is the truth. This has been a life podcast. I appreciate you all for listening. And we're going to be talking about divorce and effects of kids maybe next time. So please be sure to come back. Say bye to the people that spend a blessing.

[01:13:13] Dez: My people.

[01:13:14] Dave: Say bye to the people, Mr. Eric.

[01:13:16] E: See you. So long. God bless you.