LIFE Podcast Show

[00:01] Dez: Welcome to the Life podcast where we offer real hope to real people dealing with real life. We filter our thoughts through God's thoughts and our ways. Through God's ways, we pray. You're blessed by this podcast. Enjoy the show. Welcome back. This is the life podcast. Living intentionally for eternity, people. I am excited to be back with one of my favorite guys, my man, the smoothest man in the land, the creepy crawler himself, the man who Levitates one and only day, boots. What's up, my brother?

[01:13] Dave: Not much, dad. Good evening to you, sir.

[01:16] Dez: And I'm also joined by my new co host, the wise sage, the mystic himself, Mr. Eric Talbert. What's up, sir?

[01:26] E: Hey, what's up, dad? How are you doing, man?

[01:31] Dez: I'm doing well. I'm so glad to be joined by you fellas again. Last week on the podcast, we talked about divorce, how we fell out of love. We looked at God's word and we saw in Madacot Two at Matthew 19, god's feelings and emotions and thoughts concerning divorce. We talked about how divorce affected you all individually and today we're going to continue that conversation from a different perspective. So I'm just excited to hear what you all have. What do you all think about last episode? Kind of getting it out we haven't talked about in a while in that depth. What's your reflections? What do you think about it was.

[02:11] E: A little heavy, man. A little heavy. But it was good though. I think we both expressed our true feelings about what happened and dealt with mostly us.

[02:28] Dave: Yeah, I agree with that. Trying to just really focus on us, the role that we played in it and how it affected us. I thought we were pretty transparent, as much as we could be without getting too personal. But it was pretty good. I thought it was good. Great episode. Good episode.

[02:50] Dez: Yeah. I think it's always hard to talk about divorce because of the shame level of it, embarrassment, kind of guilt, all that stuff wrapped up. I can see how that can be a little difficult. So I just want to tell you how thankful I am. And from the views I've been seeing already, other people are very thankful as well because they may be on the edge of it, they may be walking it, they may have even done it. Just to hear men talk about this is important, right? Because usually it's women talking about it. So men need to let that out. So I'm just so thankful for that. Lord laid this on our heart to talk about it.

[03:24] E: Cool.

[03:25] Dez: So today well, in the past week I've been reading Tim Keller's book called The Reason for Marriage, and it's been really good. So our life point is going to come from his book. He says, the reason marriage is so painful and yet wonderful is because it is a reflection of the gospel, which is painful and wonderful at once. The gospel is this we are more sinful and flawed in ourselves than we ever dared believe. Yet at the very same time we are more loved and accepted in Jesus Christ than we ever dared hope. This is the only kind of relationship that will really transform us. Love without the truth is sentimentality. It supports and affirms us but keeps us in denial about our flaws. Truth without love is harshness. It gives us information but in such a way that we cannot really hear it. God's saving love in Christ, however, is marked by both radical truthfulness about who we are, yet also ourselves. The conviction and repentance moves us to cling to and rest in God's mercy and grace. The hard times of marriage drives us to experience more of this transforming love of God. But a merge, but a good merge will also be a place where we experience more of this kind of transforming love at a human level. The Gospel can fill our hearts with God's love so that you can handle it when your spouse fails to love you as he or she should. That frees us to see our spouse's sin and flaws to the bottom and speak of them and yet still love and accept our spouses fully. And when, by the power of the Gospel our spouse experiences that same kind of truthful yet committed love it enables our spouses to show us that same kind of transforming love when the time comes for it. Can I get it?

[05:14] E: Amen. That's some good stuff.

[05:20] Dez: That boy know how to write.

[05:27] E: Drop.

[05:27] Dez: The mic on drop the mic, bro. I read that I'm falling out my seat. Like good. Crazy. Is that what that's all about? If I only knew that maybe we could have had a chance. You know what I'm saying? No, I thought that was really insightful. So that's our life point for today. So one of the first things I want to discuss with you all is kind of dad, you jump right into what I want to talk about. If I only knew great question because that's our first question that we want to talk about. If I only knew what God meant for marriage maybe our chances would have been better. But we don't have to guess. We know. Because in the beginning in Genesis god said what his thoughts and purposes for marriage was. And the first man who was perfect agreed. And Genesis two gives us that account. So, Mr. E, if you don't mind, can you read that account for us? Genesis Two?

[06:33] E: Sure. Genesis 221. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam and he slept and he took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in his place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man he made it into a woman and he brought her to the man. And Adam said, this is now bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh, she shall be called woman because she was taken out of man. Therefore, a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And they were both naked, and the man and his wife were not. A shame.

[07:20] Dez: Come on now.

[07:21] E: Amen.

[07:21] Dez: That thing was so good that Batman starts singing that joy turned from prose to poetry. What is that? I'll be lying next to her.

[07:41] E: Definitely.

[07:46] Dez: Bust out of the song, Boy, isn't she lovely?

[07:51] E: Right?

[07:53] Dez: So we see there God's intent, this beautiful, dynamic, loving, thankful, grateful response to God's view to marriage in the beginning. Oh, how that changed. That probably last on the honeymoon season. You start living with each other as some babies. You're like man, right? Who is this woman you gave me for so many people? This woman you gave me I ain't talking for myself.

[08:28] E: This woman you gave me, this woman.

[08:33] Dez: But no, it's amazing. It's amazing to see that reality. So, if possible, first question, if what you know about Christ. Now, you knew back before you got divorced, do you think you could have stayed married? Mr. E.

[09:04] E: I'll say this. I do believe that there is a level of wisdom that comes with timing, with age. And, yes, if I knew some things, even the choice of marriage would have, you know, been a little different. So, yes, wisdom what they say, hindsight is 2020, so you always would have a different thought about it later.

[09:31] Dave: Right.

[09:32] E: But I do also think that it takes two. It really does. On my part. There will be things I would have done differently and really zoned in on.

[09:45] Dave: Right.

[09:48] E: And I do believe that it is the man's job to show for Christ in the situation. So, yes, there would have been a lot more love or whatever the case may be, but I'm not even the same guy now that I was then. Amen. And I think we do grow in grace.

[10:08] Dave: Amen.

[10:09] E: And starting out as a baby, Christ or whatever and trying to do all of it, not to make excuses, but I think it was a very challenging time. So, yes, and I am married. And so there are things that I have processed in terms of when we talked last week, the ten years that I was by myself, there was things that God showed me about me that helped change me, to prepare me. So, yes, I would have been a little more prepared, I think, back then, based on what I know now. But.

[10:47] Dave: Yeah, way to answer that without really saying, yeah, right, man, I would definitely piggyback on a lot of what you said, man. If I knew now, if I'd have known then what I know now about Christ, I definitely would have tried harder not to end my marriage, even though it wasn't my choice or my decision to do that. I definitely would have tried harder and not have been so passive in the process. Definitely trusting God in the midst of what was going on and not really leaning into my own understanding. That's where Proverbs comes in at, right there. Not leaning into my own understanding, but trusting the Lord and just trusting that he would give me the strength, give me the wisdom, and give me the perseverance to kind of.

[11:54] E: Go through it.

[11:55] Dave: As opposed to saying, you know what? I'm not going to keep dealing with this. Looking at the big picture, knowing the consequences now and knowing the effects of divorce on everyone. On everyone. Because even me, after I got divorced, it was almost like a license to send even more so, definitely if I knew then what I know about Christ now, or knew about God's mandate for marriage and that everything that you go through, god has already given us what we need. If we just diligently seek it in all avenues, even if it's wise counsel, if it's just more communication with your spouse, even the submission part of it, just submitting to the Holy Spirit and letting him do the work. So I definitely would have looked at the voice differently if I'd have known than what I know now.

[13:07] Dez: Mr. Edie, you want to piggyback?

[13:11] E: I know. Normally, I do. I was blank from midday. I'm sorry. I'm back. No simple things like maintaining the courtship in the marriage that I have learned. It's funny how you get married and now you want to act like whatever you've known and whatever you've seen. Yeah. When maybe in the dating phase, there was this, hey, what do you want to eat? Where do you want to go? There's all of these I care about what you want, and then you get married, and now it's all of a sudden, I don't want that. Why would you even ask me to do all of these switches?

[13:56] Dez: Stick on it.

[13:57] E: Yeah. And we go back and forth, and sometimes I think we pick up the mindset of people. We see whatever kind of relationship we came from as far as mom and dad or marriage pastor of your church or whatever the case may be. All these things have big influences, and you don't think about any of that when you're younger. You're just trying to do what you seen and trying to work it out that way versus getting to know your spouse for who she is and embracing her and her embracing you. I think that I've learned over time. Didn't know any of that back then. And you just go with the flow a lot. So I think that would be more intentional. Come on now. More intentional versus back then. Just acceptance and flowing and just going through the motions, so to speak.

[14:53] Dave: Real quick, let me ask you a question. How important do you think it is for you to really be friends with your spouse?

[15:04] E: Man, that's big, man. It is right. I think the word, like, is one porch. Even love. I mean, love can carry you through the hard times, but I think it is possible to like your spouse. I'm married. I like my wife. We hang out sometimes sitting on the back porch, just sitting. Don't have to go nowhere and be going. Some people got to go somewhere. And I know that sounds crazy. I never thought I would be able to do that. But just to sit there, she's reading some, I'm reading some. Hey, you're good, you're good. You need something. All those kind of things that are in the courtship that comes into a marriage, it makes for a better marriage.

[15:43] Dave: I agree wholehearted, because as you were talking, that's the thing that came into my mind. It's like, is this my friend?

[15:50] E: Do I think?

[15:53] Dave: Is this somebody? And Pastor, my brother Lonzo, that was one of the things that I learned through his counseling, was he asked if you guys were not involved in this love relationship, is this somebody that you could just kick it with? Is it somebody you could just hang out with and have a good time? And a lot of us getting married, man, and didn't realize that we really don't like this person. I really don't like you. It makes it hard to love you and want to serve you. For me, man, I just know that it's a whole different perspective. It's a whole different vibe. When you truly like the person, a lot of some of the stuff just comes easier. Not saying the relationship is going to be easy, but some of the servitude part of it serving each other and willing to submit or compromise more based upon because the relationship is the most important thing.

[16:52] E: Yeah. Technically, your wife should be your best friend.

[16:56] Dave: She should be your best friend. I agree.

[16:59] E: God is everything. But I believe when you deal with the two becoming one yeah. Who else is going to be that close? Exactly. Nobody says leave and cleave your mom and dad. So, yeah, that should be your best friend. Best friend. But it takes trust for that. And when you do those separate things and that's why he said, except for sexual immorality with the divorce thing, because when you start stepping out of the marriage into other sexual things, you're building relationships outside of the marriage, and it's hard to rebuild that trust. Not impossible. With God, anything's possible, but it's hard to rebuild that trust once it's broken. It's very hard.

[17:47] Dez: A couple of things that you said, Mr. E, you said facade. The facade during the dating stage, while you're courting, you put on this facade like, what do you want to eat?

[18:00] E: No.

[18:01] Dez: What do you want to eat? No, I'm saying it was a facade.

[18:05] E: I think we do that right.

[18:07] Dez: But it's like we care. Yeah, you care, but you put your best foot forward. But I was saying in regards to when you're saying once you're married, that stuff kind of changes. It changes. Right? I heard one person say familiarity breeds contempt. True. And I think that's just a good way to look at it. You just become familiar and complacent. One of my dangerous seeds. Nothing towards growth like complacency. You just get comfortable around somebody and you feel like you don't have to because you don't have to keep intentionally pursuing this person. I know my wife says that I got them now, so I thought that was really good.

[18:49] E: Let me make sure because I do think that that can be a genuine thing when you're dating people to really care about what they want to eat and all of these different things. And I don't think it's always just because you are trying to just get them either. Sometimes it's genuine because you care and you're really trying to get to know them. But we said it last week. When you deal with selfishness and the shift in whatever it is when people get married, that selfishness of I only care about myself. I only care about what I want. It causes you to start acting differently. It causes you not to care. You're bringing something home at one time when you're dating that I'm not bringing it home. I feel like doing that. It may be my job, it may be life is shifting and your mind because you're not really going to christ and finding out what's going on on the inside. Who are you going to take it out on?

[19:44] Dez: Your wife?

[19:45] E: The closest person to you, the closest person to you. So now I'm no longer being submissive and caring. I'm being internally selfish and the only person I can care about is me.

[19:58] Dez: Okay. Yeah, I get that. I'm kind of a hard hitter, bro. I'm going to say a facade I must stick with. I appreciate you giving me the other side. I wish you, man, I'm with you. When I was dating Sharnice, I've kind of made it my point to give her Desmond so she can make that choice. If you wanted to do that, I guess it was a level of superficiality. You want somebody to like you, that's a reality. But I really did strive for her to know, look, this is me. You know what I mean? This is me. I also was like 25, 26. Not saying I was super old, but she was really like my first girlfriend, my first and only real girlfriend. Now she's my wife. But I really try to make it a point to be like, babe, this is me. This is who I am. Not to say I'm not changing. I will change because you change for those you love. The more we grow close to the Lord, you changing. He ain't changing, but you're changing. And that's how it is in a loving relationship. You do change for the better of that person. So it wasn't that, but it was just like the core of who I am. I wanted her to see that because it's unfair to do that to people put on this facade for so long, and then they think this is you, and you marry them, and they just like a whole different person. And that's why we need wisdom. We need to be close to the Lord, because if you're connected with Him, he'll let you know the red flags. Now, if you heed the red flags, if you bring other people in your relationship like that dating in isolation for Christian is a no no underneath. Other people need to see you around each other. Other seasoned married people need to see, are you all really a good fit? Let people have that freedom in your life to say, bro, you think, did you see how she responded when she did you see how she looked at your mother when you how is she dealing with other when other girls are around you? Like, all that stuff is that you need to look at. And I had people in my life that was wise, that looked at that stuff, and it served beneficial. And when I had my uncle and my mom, my dad and my cousin AJ, kind of like, man, when you're going to marry this girl? I was like, she must be the one, because they hard to get over. I'm not just saying I made my decision off of them, but these are wise people that I trusted, and they saw that Shaunie's loved me. A lot of people don't have that. They date in isolation. They date like it's just by themselves. And I don't even think it's an age appropriate thing. I think you always should have it's. Much wisdom than many counselors and many wise advisors is what proverbs say. So I think if you're going to pick somebody that you're going to share your life with forever, you might want some input from some wise people, which.

[22:47] Dave: I think I think that's a great example, man. It really is. Mainly because no one thinks like that, you know what I mean? At least let me say this. This is the first time I heard that perspective that you shouldn't date in isolation. Yeah, that's the first time I heard it. I definitely understand the principle of it, but that's the first time I heard it. And that's something that people need to know, especially us in the faith, and that say that we trust the people that we have in our social circle. So it's definitely I think that was good. That was good.

[23:33] Dez: That was just something that the Lord pressed upon my heart. Date openly because sin grows in the dark. I'm not saying you sending with her, but I'm saying the more you isolate yourself with this young lady, even apart from sin, but nobody really knows her that you trust, and they don't have your ear that can just be dangerous because you're not the wisest person in the world. You need people to look at that and be like, I don't know, bro.

[23:58] E: Definitely.

[23:58] Dez: She needs people that's like, I don't know, CIS. You see how upset, how angry he got because you didn't want to go there? He pouted. You want to do that? Yeah, but you got to heat it. But you need that.

[24:12] E: You won't be able to say you didn't know.

[24:14] Dez: No, that's a true friend, like the wounds of a friend is better than the kisses of an enemy. You know what I mean? That's just reality. That Proverbs talks about better to be wounded by a friend and kissed by enemy. So if you all would have known this verse, these verses in Ephesians five, I pulled it up. Husbands, this is verse 25, Ephesians 525 32. Husbands, love your wives. Just as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself up for her, to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the Word, and to present her to Himself as a radiant church without stain or wrinkle or any blemish but holy and blameless. In this way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the Church. But we are members of his body. For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This is a profound mystery, but I'm talking about Christ and the Church. If you would have known that, gentlemen, would have been better, if you would have known it, applied it, meditated on it, talked about it, ask what that means. When you look at those verses and you look at your first, your marriages at first, what are you thinking?

[25:44] E: Yeah, known it, applied it, and not only applied it, but trust that it would carry you through the hard times. Because I think we do a disservice to people to make them believe that there'll be no hard times if you're in Christ.

[26:12] Dez: Come on.

[26:13] E: There'll be no hard times, even salvation in Christ we're levitating, so to speak, through marriage and so forth. So that would be a disservice. But what you lean on is God's Word, and God's Word does carry you through even some of the hardest times. One of the things that I said last week, and I'll say it again today, you can give an account for your actions and not other people. Adam said, this woman you gave me that's placing the blame somewhere else. And I've never sat anywhere and placed the blame on my ex for anything. I took full responsibility for my part, what I did not do, and to this day I would take the blame for that. I repented for that. The Bible says, there is now, therefore, no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. I embrace that Word, and I do know for a fact God's Word is real and it works.

[27:28] Dez: Come on.

[27:29] E: Even when I'm not working, his Word is real and it works. So I would tell anybody these scriptures to help carry you through bad relationships or bad marriages or whatever the case may be, god's Word does work. If you are on the other side, though, like we're talking now, divorce, get it right with God before you even try to get it right with the spouse, get it right with God and let Him guide you and walk you through that process. How? He wants to guide you and walk you through that process. But yes, this scripture tells us clearly the relationship that we should have not only with our spouses, but with Him.

[28:14] Dez: Come on.

[28:15] E: And when that's together, then it works the other things out, right?

[28:20] Dez: Real quick, I'm going to hold your thought. Is it there? Yeah, I can hold it. Two things. I remember talking to my Uncle Lonzo one time, and he said him and his wife were struggling. She had left for a couple of days and he said he didn't go to work. He was pretty depressed. He wouldn't mind me sharing this. That's the only reason I'm sharing it. He said he was down in the dumps. He was in his basement. He said, you know, the song man in the Mirror really changed them. If you want to make the world a better place, you got to look at yourself and make a change. Right. He said that part really got him. And you just said, you have to take responsibility for your actions in the marriage. So he said his wife came home, like to grab some stuff, and he said he looked at her, he was like, Sin, I love you and I love her, but it's about me and God. Get on my coattail and we're going to fly away. But it's about me and God. You're going to benefit. His wife says her mantra to this day is, I know I'll be okay because of Lonzo's love for Christ. She's protected by his love for Christ. I just thought that was really good. And I had me thinking this morning about the linear relationship it should be with people is Him then them. It's about him, then them. If you switch that order up, if this is about if it's about wife and kids, then God ain't going to work. If it's about kids and white, it ain't going to work. But if it's about God and then them, even though it sounds selfish and many people are like, what? Doesn't God want you love your wives? He just said it. Doesn't he want you love your kids? Yes, it's in a word. But he said, Christ says if you want to follow me, your love for them need to look like hate. So your love for Christ needs to be so strong that they think they like man. And I can't deter Daddy, I can't deter my husband from Christ. And that may offend people, but they benefit from it because that same Christ is going to turn and tell you what to do with your wife. He's going to walk with you through that. And they benefit. So it's like this him and then them mentality. And that thing has blessed me so much. And I think that mentality gives you, your household, a foundation to flourish and grow and prosper because you're submitting to God. Your wife is submitting to you, the children submitting to Yah. You know what I mean? Now the order now colossus is coming up. This is in the corinthians. And this is how God's order, christ submitted to God. Man submits to Christ, woman submits the man, children submit the parents. And now this order is coming up and you start to see Genesis before chapter three. And you like, madness actually is beautiful. I ain't there yet, but I can see the vision and I can see that God's wise. So I think if we have him and then them mindset, I think we may be eye.

[31:21] E: I agree.

[31:22] Dez: Does that make sense?

[31:23] Dave: Yeah, because we have so many examples, so many great examples of that happening. And not to say that life doesn't happen. Even in the midst of that obedience, life is still going to happen. I think that's the thing that deter people or makes people think that it's not beneficial to worship God or to obey God or to follow Christ in that manner because life is still going to happen.

[31:51] Dez: Come on.

[31:51] Dave: But it's how we respond to it that shows who we follow and who we say we belong to. It's not going to be perfect because you can have that same dynamic and do everything right and one of your kids still go straight and get out here and do foolish stuff. But again, you laid the foundation and the seed has been planted. So you did your job. And the best thing you could do at that point is keep praying.

[32:24] E: Yeah.

[32:25] Dave: Amen for you, brother.

[32:28] Dez: Amen. Yeah. So I think what both of you all are saying is, is essentially marriage is hard and it takes intention. It takes you've been intentional to make it work. You know what I mean? The reason why let's just be blunt. The reason why marriage is hard is not God's fault. It's our fault. God, we read in Genesis two, his intention for marriage, things was growing. They were happy, they were excited, they had joy. But sin came into the world and now sin equals hardship. Marriage is hard because we're sinners. It's so simple. But it's profound, sir. It's simple, but if you go to a marriage thing, it's always these other complexities. No, it's just we're selfish and we're sinners and we. Want our way. You know what I mean? I think Tim Keller says a little bit better in his book Meaning the Marriage. He says, Marriage is glorious, but it's hard. It's a burning joy and strength, yet there's also blood, sweat and tears, humbling, defeats, and exhausting victories. No marriage I know more than a few weeks old could be described as a fairy tale come true. Therefore, it is not surprising that the only phrase in Paul's famous discourse on marriage in ephesians five that many couples can relate to is verse 32, printed above. Sometimes you fall into bed after a long, hard day of trying to understand each other. You can only sigh, wow. This is all a profound mystery. At times, your marriage seems to be an unsolvable puzzle, amazed, in which you feel lost. You haven't felt like that.

[34:15] Dave: Yeah, I second that emotion.

[34:20] E: Yeah, no doubt, man.

[34:27] Dez: That's the reality. It's both, and it's beautiful, but it's hard. It's beautifully broken on this side of heaven.

[34:38] E: Right. That's why it's important to make a real decision in life about what it is you want, what you want to do, because all of it can be. Raising children is hard. Maybe. I just don't know. But when you get into it and you're involved, it's hard if you're into your marriage. It could be hard if you're into walking for Christ and salvation. It's hard because life is hard when you're engaged. That's why so many people disengage.

[35:14] Dez: Come on.

[35:15] E: Because it can be challenging to who you are and what you believe on so many different levels. And you change. And as you change, you want people to stay the same, but they change. And you have to shift. I talk about this a lot. We have to be able to shift. My kids, when they were little kids, I can't talk to them the same way because they're grown people. Exactly. I have to make that shift. If I don't make that shift, then I'll be frustrated even more. And I think that's the thing that we face a lot in marriages, too, as well. Shifting. If I see that, okay, we're married now. I should be aware of my wife's emotions. If I'm in tune to her, okay, this is not a good time for me to do this. She's got a place. She needs the space. Exactly. And being able to recognize that and make those shifts with her god noticing he's shifting and how he's dealing with me and recognizing where I am and where he is. The most powerful thing we have is salvation. But also on our part is our wills, and those are being broken all the time by Him. And Jesus did in gethsemane, he said, nevertheless, not my will, but nine be done. But he sweat. He went through sweat and was coming out of his pores as he wrestled. He knew he was here to do that, but he still had a moment where he was wrestling in the garden gethsemane. So that was hard. So I think the only way you really get through it is being intentional about making a serious decision that for God, I live for God, I die for this woman I love. This is it. If something happens, then it happens. But I married her and this is it. My children, they are always going to be my children no matter what. When you make these declarations to yourself and to God, I think it helps with the decision making. I got to find a way now because I've made this a decision that I'm going to do just like a job. This is my job and I got to go to work. You don't feel like getting them going to work every day. But this is my job and I got to go to work, you know.

[37:42] Dez: Sick days, I guess.

[37:47] Dave: Right?

[37:48] E: The job didn't make you take it. You chose it.

[37:50] Dez: You chose it.

[37:51] E: Jesus didn't make us choose it. We chose sin.

[37:54] Dez: Sin broth comfortable.

[38:00] E: But when you are serious about your decision, you find a way.

[38:08] Dez: What factors makes marriage hard? Same question.

[38:11] Dave: First of all, it's two people, two different personalities, two sinful people. That that's the first thing that makes it hard. And I think the second thing that makes it hard is the lack of selflessness. You know what I mean? It's so much selfishness that we have and I think that's one of the biggest things that helped us and not putting God first, not having it a faith based merge from the get go or moving into a faith based merge. Because I know for me I wasn't saved when I got married. Well, I was saved when I got married, but I wasn't intentional about my faith when I got married. So I wasn't really walking in the faith when I got married. So that would that in and of itself was a hindrance to my marriage. And as we were reading the Ephesians 525, the problem that I had not really a problem, but the issue for me was my merge counselor. Merge counseling is huge.

[39:32] Dez: Come on.

[39:33] Dave: Premier counseling. That's huge, man. And I think my pre murder counseling session was about 45 minutes. Really? It was about 45 minutes. And he read this scripture and he read a couple of other scriptures. No in depth teaching on it, no real true understanding of it. So I heard it, but what was I going to apply? So having real good premarital counseling, something that's going to last, something that's going to challenge you, something that's going to test you, something that's going to make you think. Because I think that with really a real thorough merge counselor, it will cause some people not to get married.

[40:22] Dez: I caught off my wedding twice exactly doing marriage counselor. Glonzo said his whole purpose for marriage counselor is to get people not to get married because it's that weighty. He said it's his job to make them consider. Don't do it.

[40:38] Dave: That's good. Marriage counselor, man.

[40:40] E: It should be.

[40:42] Dave: I truly feel that that's what it.

[40:44] Dez: Should be from your soul.

[40:46] Dave: It should be that tough. It should be that challenging. It should be that thought provoking that you really step back and look and say, I'm not as serious about this as I thought I was, or I'm not as prepared for this as I thought I was, or she's not the person or he's not the person that I really want to marry. Because now you're getting challenged with your actual behavior and your actual perspective and your actual thoughts and your upbringing. All of those things are being challenged now, right. And being brought to the forefront. And if you don't recognize the red flags in that situation, you want a wedding. You don't want a marriage. A lot of people get married for the wedding. They're not getting married for forever. And we've seen examples of that also.

[41:44] Dez: Do you think it's a lot of things you said people are preparing more for a wedding out of marriage. You said the two factors for you were the two simple people. That makes it hard and then the lack of selflessness. Mr. Eric, you said marriage is inevitably hard. It's just hard. It's baked in is hard. But you also say in that husbands have the responsibility of being emotionally, physically, and spiritually in tune with their wife, and that can bring peace in essence. That's what you were saying, right? One thing that I see in my merch that makes it hard is you have to mature.

[42:35] Dave: No doubt.

[42:37] Dez: You have to grow up. That's the best way I can put it. You got to put childish things away, and only the Lord can help you do that. Your wife is right. If you spend too much time on a video game, she's right. And it may be hard to hear that because you're like, man, it's the only time I could put my brain in autopilot. I don't think she'd get mad over 25 minutes, 30 minutes. It's when you up all night not helping, not doing things. Like, you got to grow up, bro. You can't spend all your time with your friends. She matters. Got to grow up, bro. She can't take the lead in spiritual matters all the time. She may be stronger than you. You got to grow up. God's in the business of raising adult children, not children children. And that's the hardest thing for me. I got to put those childish things away. It's a lot of childishness that I didn't know. I don't even think I would have known if I didn't get married. But I'll give you a prime example. This is so silly, but it's true that, you know, I hate doing homework. You know how much I hated doing homework. It did not change when I got kids. I mean, hissy fits, pouting, slamming stuff, because my one year old, my six year old is like, we got this homework, and I think I'm done. And it's like, we got three more. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm getting upset, and my whole night is messed up because I have to spend this time doing this homework.

[44:12] Dave: And what is your occupation?

[44:13] Dez: A teacher. I don't get homework, by the way. Homework ain't no homework. I love my students.

[44:26] E: This is from a teacher.

[44:28] Dez: I hate it, and it's like, But, Desmond, you got to grow up majority. You said it last week, bro. I don't know if you know what you said. You said marriage is for adults, for grown ups, no boys allowed. It is the beauty of marriage. It makes of men the things that men need. It pushes you to here we go. Word. Kind of archaic, but self mastery, right, where you begin to master yourself those habits, you know what I mean? Because if you're in marriage and you are to love your wife the way Christ loved the church, christ ain't thinking about Himself all the time. Children think about themselves all the time.

[45:17] E: That's it.

[45:18] Dez: You know what I mean? Christ ain't thinking about just what's going to bring Him pleasure. That's what kids do, right? He thought about he saw your need. He looked down at your life and knew that if he did not do this for you, you were perished forever. And in condescending love, he left his comfort and came down and died and suffered. And he said in the same way, do that for your wife. Even when we were yet sinners, what did Christ do? Mr. E died for us. So that means, like Pastor's Act said the other day, and during this sermon, god didn't christ didn't wait for you to get your act together to love you, right?

[45:56] E: Right? That's true.

[45:59] Dez: Hey, brother, that's a grown up decision. That ain't no kidding system.

[46:03] E: That's it.

[46:03] Dez: He ain't wait for you to get your act together and say, okay, now he's he's saveable now. No, while you were downright rotten, dirty, filthy, vow wretched, I came and died for you. When you wasn't responding to me, grace came and saw your case.

[46:20] Dave: Come on.

[46:21] Dez: He said in that way, love your wife even when she's disrespecting you, even when she's not giving you some, even when you got to fight and pull for compliments, even when she doesn't see the hard work you putting in, even when all that stuff can you still hold in and do it. And it's a mystery, and I'm not arrived. But that's what the Lord is teaching me. That's when you got to grow up. And when you grow up, you rise above about 97% of the population.

[46:49] E: Yeah, you do.

[46:50] Dez: Even in the Church, you rise above a lot of people, and you start to see, man, it's kind of lonely up here in this grown up world, because we're more governed by our emotion than truth. And that's what happens when we live in a culture the way we do it. We glorify mediocrity, we glorify adolescence and youthfulness that kills a nation. It's the adults that make this world go around, not the kids, you know, and that can be a judgment, you know what I mean? God says when he judged the nation, he said, I'm going to give you children to rule over you and women to rule over you. Where are the men? Men got to grow up. So go ahead, Mr. E. I don't know if that makes sense, but no.

[47:34] E: You right on point. I thought about something in James that says, but be doers of the Word and not hearers. Only deceiving yourself. For if anyone is a hero of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror. For he observes himself, goes away and immediately forgets what kind of man he is. But he looks into the perfect law and liberty and continues in it. And it is not forgetful hearers, but a doer of the work. The reason why this came to me is because what wives do is they keep a mirror in front of you when you're single. This scripture applies perfectly in terms of knowing what to do, but walking away and doing what you want to do. But our wives keep that mirror up. They show us us, and we don't like to hear us. And so then that's when the hard time comes because it's like, man, go ahead, man. We're saying, Go ahead, get out of here. Because you're putting a mirror up to me. Our kids putting mirrors up to us. They show us us our imperfection. So when you're single and you're by yourself, you're just doing you and you're relying on the word friends and other people that may be around you, to tell you the truth. But when you union with somebody and you have a wife, now you have a day to day person that's not intentionally putting it up to tear you down, but they're able to show you you because you think you are sometimes more than what you are. So God gives you a wife, he gives you children and things to show us, us. It's like a mirror, a constant mirror that's being put in front of our face. That's a blessing. And you learn how to appreciate it as you go along. But it could be frustrating, and that's what causes some of the hard times. Yeah, because you'll push back on that. Get out of here. No. Why wasn't this bill paid? Now you by yourself. You can pay it if you want or not, but when you're married, the wife is like, well, why wouldn't this bill pay? Okay, the marriage there. What you going to do? Now I'm frustrated because I got this, I got that. And so wives are a blessing. To us. Children are really a blessing to us when we recognize what they do represent, that mirror being placed in front of our face continuously.

[50:04] Dave: Amen.

[50:06] E: Amen.

[50:07] Dave: And when you're talking about growth, man, I think that the most important thing with growth is that you have to have a desire to grow. You got to want to grow. You got to want to be better. You got to want to rise to the challenges that your wife, your kids life presents you. You have to have a desire to grow, because if you don't, that retards everybody. That retards everybody. Because just in my personal life, I want my kids to be to be the best that they can be. So therefore, I have to put forth the effort to help them get there. I want whoever at the time I wanted my wife to be the best that she could be. So you look at yourself and you say, how do I help perpetuate this? That means that I have to be engaged intentional. I have to be intentional. I have to have a plan. I have to have some type of financial responsibility, all of those things, man and if you don't have that inside you, that innate thing in you that God gives us to be responsible, don't be passive. Come on, take responsibility, be courageous and face life, because the selfishness, it is so destructive on every level when we only think about ourselves, the things that we would do that I know that I would do when my wife rejected me, the selfish places that I would go into preach, brother. Just because she rejected me.

[52:03] Dez: Come on.

[52:05] Dave: Whenever she would talk to me a certain way that I didn't believe that she should have been talking to me. And the most important, you know what men are? Don't disrespect me. Don't disrespect me. And the things that you would do, the vengeful things that you would do because of those things. Man and, Eric, you have really hit it on the head as far as you're focusing on what I did, what was my role, where did I feel? Because ultimately, it's on the man, and a lot of people don't want to hear a lot of men don't want to hear that. But ultimately, it's on the man. And if you got married and you wasn't prepared for marriage, it's your fault.

[52:50] Dez: Say it again.

[52:51] Dave: If you got married and you started a family and you weren't prepared, it's your fault.

[52:56] E: That's it.

[52:57] Dave: That's the bottom line.

[52:58] E: That's it. And when you were talking, one of the things that came to mind, the scripture says without a vision, people parrot. Come on, as the men, we should have the vision for our family. We should. And they're looking to it. But if we're blind, we go in a ditch. They go in a ditch, right? But now the beautiful part, too, is.

[53:24] Dave: Bring it on.

[53:26] Dez: Lighten up the moody, my brother.

[53:31] E: That's why God says, be not unequally yoked with unbelievers.

[53:36] Dave: Yes.

[53:36] E: Because one of the benefits of having a saved wife is that neither one of you are doing this by yourself and you have a helper, the he Holy Spirit that is helping you. Amen. So it is the man's responsibility. Definitely. But if you have a saved wife, then that wife does not just lean to just her emotions and her feelings, but she goes to the Lord too, and she covers you. She covers you in prayer, whatever you have. And I've learned that what you deposit, you get back. So as I deposit prayer for my wife, there are times when I don't feel like it, oh, that's coming back. Why? Because we deposited those things into the relationship. Even how you deal with your kids, with understanding versus understanding, each one of them as different individuals and not all the same, just some you want to talk to more, some you may have to, whatever. But learning each one uniquely and dealing with them like that, that's important too. And they will deal with you in love and respect for what you did. So you are reaping what you saw in a lot of ways. That's important too, I think, learning that. And like I said, a lot of this growth can never take place if I'm not humble enough to receive the correction for the growth. Amen.

[55:16] Dave: Amen.

[55:17] E: Humility has got to be somewhere. Amen. And I think that's what we learned as we hit our heads up against the wall enough times, it's like, okay, I'm tired. Right?

[55:29] Dez: Crisis changes a man.

[55:34] E: Right?

[55:35] Dez: And God can use a woman and be like, oh, I need her. I'm going to go ahead. Stop that.

[55:49] E: Ah.

[55:50] Dez: One of the things that I thought was good, you said, you make a deposit, you get something back. Kind of this investment, I think. I don't know if it was Miles moral forget who it was, but he said women are incubators. He said, you give them a house, they'll give you a home.

[56:07] Dave: Amen.

[56:07] Dez: You give them groceries, they'll give you a meal.

[56:09] E: Amen.

[56:10] Dez: You give them sperm, they'll give you a kid. He said, so it's like this. That's how God created because what did you say? I'm going to make a helper for you. Right? You don't have a vision if you don't cast this vision, what they're helping you with? Have you sat down, went before you were married, did you say to your wife, look, this is what I'm planning to do with my life. Do you want to be a part of it? Did she even get that chance? Or you flip flopping every three years of what you want to do? Come on, Desmond.

[56:38] E: Right.

[56:39] Dave: Come on.

[56:39] Dez: She knew I wanted to be a teacher. She knew that ministry was probably going to be in my life. So it's not a surprise to her. And if she said yes, you hold her accountable to that. Look, you knew. You knew this is what I wanted to do. Now that it's getting hard and that's nothing wrong with that, bringing that up. So I think it's that reality and I think you hit it well. That your favorite word. You always say life is about what that's? What? Say it again.

[57:07] Dave: Relationships.

[57:09] Dez: Let me read Philippians two, one through 60. It says imitating crisis, humility. Because that's what you need in a relationship. You need to be humble. You need to know who you are. Therefore, if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love if any common sharing in the spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Not act out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather humility. Value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests, but each of you to the interests of the others in your relationships with one another have the same mindset as Jesus Christ. That's God's word.

[57:58] E: Amen. Amen.

[58:01] Dez: That's God's word. Listen to this. I was talking about you talked about personal responsibility and you talked about personal responsibility. Guess who else talked about it? Tim Keller. Listen to this. Marriage provides a better sense of personal responsibility. Married people experience greater physical and mental health. What? Also marriage provides a profound shock absorber that helps you navigate disappointments, illnesses and other difficulties. You recover your equilibrium faster. Studies show that spouses hold one another to greater personal responsibility and self discipline than friends or other family members can. For example, single people can spend money unwisely and self indulgence self indulgently without anyone holding them accountable. But married people make each other practice saving, investment and delayed gratification. Here we go. Nothing can mature a character like marriage. Well, you all not just talking about that.

[58:54] Dave: Yes, we are.

[58:56] E: And I didn't even read that right.

[58:58] Dave: Exactly.

[59:03] E: Out of the mouth of two or three let everywhere be established.

[59:09] Dez: And this is a big point right here and we're going to wrap up Mr. E. I want you to read number ten, nice and loud.

[59:23] E: Marriage used to be about us, but now it is about me.

[59:28] Dez: Read it at the same one. Yes.

[59:31] Dave: Marriage used to be about us, but now it is about me.

[59:37] Dez: Older views of marriage are considered to be traditional and oppressive. But a newer view of the me marriage seems so liberating. And yet it is the newer view that has led to steep decline in marriage and to an oppressive sense of hopelessness with regard to it. To conduct a me marriage requires two completely well adjusted, happy individuals with very little in the way of emotional neediness of their own or character flaws that need a lot of work. The problem is there's almost no one like there out there to marry. The new conception of marriage as self realization has put us in a position of wanting too much out of marriage and yet not nearly enough at the same time, the me merged. That don't sound like Christ's humility. No, he says rather in humility. Value others above yourself, not looking to your own interests, but each of you to the interest of the other. That's so countercultural. I'm surprised we have this place. My dad just stared at the screen to close out Mr. E. We're talking about maturity, character, self discipline, personal responsibility, tending to emotional needs, living with your wife in an understanding way, dying to yourself, loving them is Christ, and love the Church. You hear all this stuff. Does it surprise you that divorce is so rampant? Those words make us, like, not at all in our culture. Are you surprised that it's like, becoming more acceptable and acceptable, more morally and culture acceptable, when we hear this is what God's calling you to do it? But we live in a culture where it's all about me. No, I'm not doing that right. This is comparison. You just give a thought. Your last thoughts on?

[01:01:49] E: Yeah.

[01:01:50] Dez: Why this parallel?

[01:01:52] E: Well, first of all, God's Word said things were wax worse and worse. So the reality of it is that things are supposed to get worse no matter how we look at it. As the return of the Lord is drawing near, I think things will just continue to get worse. But it's almost as if it's not almost as if God has allowed his grace to just so vastly be used by so many that I think we don't believe that there's a consequence or a wrath anymore and that people are able to just do whatever and it goes unknown or undone. But there is a consequence whoever's listening to me, there's a consequence for sin.

[01:02:41] Dez: Come on.

[01:02:42] E: I believe if Eve knew that on the other side of eating that fruit, that she would lose a son, and one son would have to be banished from the garden, she would have left the fruit alone. Amen. So there is a consequence to sin, and I challenge people all the time to realize that. Grandma used to say, you may get by, but you don't get away. Amen. But there is a love of Christ, and when you experience his love, it takes away the selfishness of our sinful nature, and he has a way of doing it like no other can. So trusting in Him and giving your heart to Him, he can carry us through anything. And I believe that it makes us need Him more when we see so much destruction or see so much devastation and selfishness. And the intent is for us to come to Him. That's the intent of his allowing these things to be seen and done. Because you can enjoy them for a little bit, but at some point in time, you're just going to get tired because it wasn't designed to be something that's joyful all the time. So if you want to see society and I'll dare say a lot of people aren't even getting married anymore though.

[01:04:02] Dave: Exactly.

[01:04:02] E: We're at that place, we're talking about divorce. A lot of people are not even considering marriage. So the selfishness of our society is real. It's getting worse. But at the same time, I do believe that if you look hard enough, you will find people that are doing it right, that are serving God and that are doing like we're doing here with this podcast, raising up. The name of Jesus and knowing that Jesus is still putting together some good marriages and some people are loving in Lord and they're doing it God's way.

[01:04:35] Dave: Amen.

[01:04:36] E: Right way.

[01:04:37] Dez: God's way, god's way, god's way of life. We try to filter our ways through God's way. You got that?

[01:04:45] Dave: Well, as you said before, one of my pet words is relationships.

[01:04:52] Dez: That's how you say it. Relationships.

[01:04:54] Dave: The importance of cultivating and maintaining good relationships. Man, it takes work, but it also takes just understanding that just basically in your relationship with God, your relationship with others, your relationship with your spouse is put the relationship first. Always think about what's best for the relationship sometimes. And another thing that you always hear me say des is sometimes better to.

[01:05:27] Dez: Do right than to be right.

[01:05:28] E: That's it.

[01:05:29] Dave: You know, it better than I do better to do right than to be right. You know, the right thing to do at that time. You're right. But do the right thing to submit compromise, give grace in certain situations and God will give you the opportunity, the opportunity to come back around to show that what's the right thing to do. So just put the relationship first in any situations that you come up with. Just think about the relationship, what's best for this relationship, what's best for this relationship. And I guarantee nine times out of ten that's going to be the best thing to do at that moment. Don't be selfish. Be as selfless as you can. Extend grace where you can and humble.

[01:06:27] Dez: Yourself humility imitating you, man, because we're.

[01:06:33] Dave: All not and none of us are perfect. And so therefore we shouldn't expect perfection, but just extending grace and understanding that if we serve God, if we obedient to God above all else, he'll give us peace one way or the other. And that's what I want. I just want peace.

[01:06:55] Dez: There's no peace without conflict, my brother.

[01:07:00] E: And I just want to encourage too, because I went through this phase too, and we're not going to start back up again. But you know how the scripture says, don't be so heavily minded that you know, earthly good.

[01:07:15] Dez: I don't know if that scripture.

[01:07:20] E: In there turning with me, but you have to be careful not to be self righteous and spiritual too, at the same time, right? Because sometimes you can get so spiritual that I'm. Right, you're wrong, like you said, and God is with me and he's not hearing you, and so forth. Sometimes you may have to come off of I don't know who I'm talking to, but sometimes you may have to come off the cloud a little bit and just deal real preach with life.

[01:07:53] Dez: Preach.

[01:07:54] E: Oh, you're hurting. Okay. It's okay to hurt. You're sad. It's okay to be sad. These emotions are real. You may not have to preach to her. Sometimes you just need to be held. Amen. She don't need a sermon, she just need holding, you know what I'm saying? Or just time spent, whatever. And I think those things go a very long way in relationship. You don't have to come home from church and have church.

[01:08:28] Dez: Not drowning.

[01:08:29] E: Right, that was important. We got to stop.

[01:08:39] Dez: I appreciate it. Last thoughts for me. Mr. EU said you can choose the choice, but you cannot choose the consequences. You can choose to get divorced, but you can't choose the consequences of that divorce. God allows crisis in order to draw us to him. Dad said that, I think now it cuts off. That's funny. God allows crisis in order to draw us to him. And then relationships take work. Those are the kind of last things I kind of got off from you all and the last thing I'm going to say and we are out. You said young people don't even want to get married anymore. Guess who else said that? Last quote that the perception of modern young adults on marriage is grossly negative. They perceive marriage to be horrible, boring, and I'm satisfied. However, they underestimate the prospects of a good marriage. All surveys tells us that the number of married people who stay there are very happy in their marriage is high about 61% to 62%. And there has been little decrease in this figure during the last decade. Most striking longitudinal studies demonstrate that two thirds of five years if people stay married and do not get divorced. That again, studies demonstrate that two thirds of married people who stay together for five years and do not get divorced are happier during the last two decades. The great preponderance of research evidence shows that married people consistently show much higher satisfaction with their partner than those who are single, divorced or living with their partner. It also reveals that most people are happy also children who grow more positive life who grow more positive life outcomes than those who do not. So you're right, brother. That was shared wisdom.

[01:10:46] E: Amen.

[01:10:48] Dave: Amen.

[01:10:49] Dez: That was shared wisdom. This is the life podcast where we filter our thoughts through God thoughts and we filter our ways through God's ways. I have the sage, the mystic, the wise one, Mr. Eric. I have the smoothest man in the land, the creepy, call himself the one who levitates Dave Loots with me. Say by to the people that it's.

[01:11:11] Dave: Been a pleasure, people, till next time.

[01:11:13] Dez: Say bye to the people. Mr.

[01:11:14] E: Ya, been a pleasure. Can't wait till next time. Looking forward to next time.