LIFE Podcast Show

Zak (00:00.493)
do it.

Dez (00:01.255)
Welcome back to the Life Podcast Show. This is Des Utes. At the Life Podcast Show, we like to filter our thoughts through God's thoughts, like to filter our ways through God's ways, and we like to filter our perspectives through God's perspectives. It's your boy. We are back. I mean, I have not been back on this thing since August. I keep going now. Like, I'll do a show and then be gone for like three months.

I know the algorithm like, bro, just give it up, but I'm not going to give it up. I want to keep going in the Lord's name. I'm just kidding. All right. A lot of things have gone on in my life, but I will address that in a different podcast. So I have two of my friends with me, close friends. One is true to the show. One is the other is new to the show. So I have my man, Zach Kurgs back with me. What's up, Kurgs?

Zak (00:32.855)
Yeah.

Zak (00:57.773)
What's up, brother? It's good to be back. It's fun.

Dez (00:59.573)
Yes, sir. And I have a new voice, the velvety voice of Mr. D'Oren Beverly. We call him D-Bavs. What's up D-Bavs? Anytime, anytime, anytime. Today, today we want to talk about Kurt Franklin. Kurt Franklin is an interesting guy. I loved Kurt Franklin's songs for a long time.

DWarren (01:10.929)
man, what is going on man? Thank you for having me. That's awesome.

Dez (01:29.673)
He is a pillar in the black gospel, I guess gospel entertainment area. And he has come under some fire recently for a lot of different reasons. But this new one out of the million that's come up in the last three years is his decision to participate on a track with Glowrilla. Glowrilla from my research is a rapper who talks about what rappers talk about these days, not very kind things, godly things.

And Kirk Franklin, and you know, if you want to do a gospel track, it's two people you need to consort. Well, actually three. Nicki Minaj, the old rapper, she used to consort Tasha Cobbs, you know, and then, you know, other rappers, other rappers, if you want a gospel person, you've to go after Maverick City and you got to go after Kirk Franklin. And guess who's on her new single? Kirk Franklin and Maverick City. They just can't say no. They just can't

So today we want to talk about his, he had a viral rant that went on when he was just upset with the church, I guess, because he feels as though they're not handling the situation right. He, in his own word, is tired of us. He's tired of us throwing scriptures at him. He's getting a little pissed off is what he says. So we're going to kind of talk about that and react to it and see what God has to say. Get God's perspective on this matter. But before we start that,

Zach, how you been?

Zak (03:01.571)
I've been good brother. It's been a busy season but a good season and God keeps growing us and I had listened to a sermon today on contentment, one of my favorite topics that we all struggle with. But yeah, just a great reminder of like, Jesus is faithful. We're gonna be all right. Just keep doing what you're called to do. So yeah, it's been good, man.

Dez (03:12.496)
Mm. Hmm.

DWarren (03:13.77)
Yeah.

Dez (03:25.796)
Amen. Amen. Dee, how you been?

DWarren (03:29.962)
Always tired, bro We always joke around but no I've been good. I can't I cannot and I will not complain. I'm good. I got us good

Dez (03:31.785)
Yeah.

Zak (03:32.567)
Yeah

Dez (03:39.829)
The reason D'Warn is tired is because D'Warn got a lot of kids, Yeah, D'Warn is fulfilling that thing. He got like five and five. Every year he's popping about. He knows how to know her, you know what saying? But D'Warn has four beautiful children now and he has his fifth on the way. So, I mean, that's amazing. Pray for that brother. He's going be tired, way more tired than he is now.

DWarren (03:42.108)
I do. I'm just, I'm fulfilling that biblical mandate.

Zak (03:43.363)
through foam multiply baby, he's doing it. That's right.

DWarren (03:50.417)
I have five kids. I love my wife.

Zak (03:52.547)
you

That's right. That's right.

DWarren (04:07.228)
haha

Dez (04:07.906)
he ain't too tired though.

DWarren (04:10.009)
Yeah, no. Nope. Not yet.

Dez (04:12.469)
But I'm thankful to have you brothers with me. Let's get into it. So let's play this track and let's listen to old Kirk Franklin talk about why he's so tired of the church kind of picking on him. All right. So we'll pick this up and guys, I'm going to stop in between just so I don't get copyrighted, but I'll stop in between and kind of get your thoughts and then we'll kind of go from there. this is...

Zak (04:13.784)
Hmm

Dez (04:42.953)
This is Kirk Franklin talking about why he's so upset. All here we go. And guys, real quick, if you could just mute your mics, that would be great. Just press mute, that would be great.

Dez (05:13.173)
If

is

Dez (05:40.423)
It's like we want to quote and represent things of faith that are

Dez (05:57.055)
these like nobody in the Bible was pretty nobody in the Bible had this clean pretty life but in real time y'all keep wanting to make everything so pretty and so packaged well that it's like

Dez (06:23.925)
see the numbers of people that don't believe. You see the numbers of people that are leaving, but y'all still want to keep holding on to the fact that y'all are like experts in the texts and the Aramaic and the Greek and the Hebrew instead of realizing that everything in Christianity is not going to be right to the perfect.

Dez (06:56.679)
It was not easy in the text. It ain't easy now. I'm in Orlando. I'm in Florida, these people have been hit with all of these storms.

Dez (07:14.581)
and you're still one of those cryptic people. Where is this cryptic?

says rejoice with those that rejoice and mourn with those that mourn. Y'all are so pretty, wanting to rep everything in a perfect goal, that you don't even give yourself a chance to feel the pain that people go through. Now, you want to throw scriptures and stuff so quickly that you just don't even give people the opportunity to mourn, to hurt, hurt the people.

Why don't y'all want to my people? Why don't y'all want to agony of what our species goes through as humans?

Dez (08:05.589)
Y'all wanna be so quick to just keep throwing all of these Biblocentric ideals at people instead of going, man, I can't even imagine how that mama feels having a third child. Bro, y'all gotta, y'all.

Dez (08:22.535)
Stop trying to make Christianity so perfect and pretty and let it be ugly when it's time to be ugly. Joe's life was ugly. Joe's life was ugly.

Dez (08:37.013)
David's baby dying after his adulterous relationship with Bathsheba, that was Bathsheba, that was ugly. It's ugly. It's ugly. The storms of

Dez (08:54.321)
Amen.

Dez (09:40.853)
All right, guys. Sorry, you can't see me. I'll come back in a minute. cause y'all were able to hear that, right? Y'all heard the whole thing. All right. so the first question I want to address is does Kirk Franklin have a point?

DWarren (09:44.065)
Mm-hmm.

Zak (09:46.142)
Okay.

DWarren (09:48.095)
Yeah. Yep.

Zak (09:51.393)
Yeah,

DWarren (10:00.193)
That's a no for me dog. And where's the immortal Randy Jackson? Yes. Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah.

Dez (10:02.759)
Anybody could go up.

Zak (10:03.213)
No.

Dez (10:07.189)
He has a point but he's wrong. Zach, what's going on?

Zak (10:07.441)
Well, he's got a point, but it's wrong.

Yeah.

Zak (10:16.035)
I think this is a classic example of so much of what we see in like kind of the big Eva Church today is Let's take God's Word to set to the side, right? We're all Christians, but let's just set God's Word to the side because this thing whatever the thing is that we're dealing with is just so hard that we need to just push God's Word to the side and just feel it, right? Let's just be empathetic with each other and let's just let's just feel it

Well, for how long and why are we feeling it? And what's the goal in feeling like this? I don't know. Let's just feel it. Right. Just like you said, let's just let it breathe. Like, dude, what are you talking about? Let it breathe for how long? Like what? Why? Why? Like everything you threw out scripture. Yes, like suffering is real and life is hard. We can all agree with that. We've all gone through stuff like I mean, we've I think all of us here have like

DWarren (10:56.959)
Hmm

Dez (11:00.835)
You

Zak (11:15.051)
lost family members in the last couple years. So we're not saying life isn't hard. But what do we do when we all went through those things? We're pointing each other to the one standard, which is God's word, which is gonna get us through that. We're not gonna get through it by just sitting here feeling sorry for ourselves and feeling bad. We look to the constant source of authority in our life. We look to scripture to get us through it.

Dez (11:17.503)
Yeah.

Dez (11:35.093)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (11:43.636)
Mm-hmm.

Zak (11:43.831)
So when he's like, I mean, I don't know. I don't know what kind of scriptures he's saying people are throwing at him, but I don't know. But what popped into my head while I was listening to this last night was John 11, when Jesus goes to Lazarus' tomb. And if you go to that passage and look at it, even in that, when Jesus weeps, right? That's like, look how much he loved him and all that.

Dez (11:58.645)
Mmm.

Dez (12:08.636)
Mm.

Zak (12:11.969)
I feel like that's where people would camp out, right? Like, look how much emotion Jesus felt. But that whole scenario that scripture lays out for us, Jesus was intentional doing what he did, delaying getting there, showing up. And then when he shows up, everything is like, you know why I'm here? Cause I'm the resurrection and the life. I can raise the dead. I'm here even when he prays. Father, I know this, but I'm

Dez (12:14.069)
Mm.

Dez (12:34.1)
Mmm.

Dez (12:38.293)
Mm-hmm.

Zak (12:40.707)
praying this in front of everybody so that you'll, so they'll know that I'm the son of God and that you are who you say you are. So even in this suffering, the point is looking to Christ, pushing into him. He's the one we need to look at, not just sitting there feeling sorry for ourselves and, you know, feeling bad. Like, yeah, all those things are awful, right? Losing your house and the government screwing you over and all that, like, yeah, but.

Dez (12:47.893)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (12:53.523)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Dez (13:07.153)
Yeah.

Zak (13:10.177)
what do you turn to in those storms of life? Do you just turn to, hey everybody, you feel bad for me and let's soak in our emotions or do we look to the, you know, the constant word of God to get us through? So I think that's where he just went off, you know, on his tangent was just more, hey everybody, y'all just need to feel bad and let's just feel bad and let's stop trying to make it look pretty and.

DWarren (13:22.918)
Yeah.

Dez (13:25.311)
Yeah.

DWarren (13:34.148)
Yeah.

Zak (13:40.225)
I don't think me encouraging each one of you with a Psalm when you're going through a really hard struggle is trying to make something pretty. I'm trying to, just like you do for me, I'm pointing you like look to Yahweh. He's the one that will help you, right? So, all right, I'm putting my soapbox down.

DWarren (13:46.915)
No.

Dez (13:49.501)
Mm-hmm.

DWarren (13:51.867)
Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Dez (13:56.711)
Yeah. Hey, Zack, your chest pumping?

DWarren (13:57.356)
You're good. That was good.

Having heart palpitations like Vody over there? Yeah.

Zak (14:05.151)
It was, man. There was a lot of like, you gotta be kidding me, man. Yeah.

Dez (14:08.793)
Hey, look, when I sent it to you, said, Zach Blood is probably boy.

DWarren (14:12.15)
Hahaha.

Zak (14:13.251)
What's the what's the vote II what's the vote II YouTube when he was with the cross-politic guys and he was like stop stop the tape stop. Yep. Yep. It was like that

DWarren (14:15.971)
Yeah, uncrossed politics. Yeah, he stopped it like every two seconds. Yeah, yeah. That's so funny. Man, like when he said something about like, life is ugly, like bad things happen and that's it. I'm like, but that's not what the Bible teaches. I mean, like the Bible is like this, well, it's this whole scarlet thread of God's redemptive action throughout history.

Dez (14:25.608)
my goodness, said, D, what do you think? D, what do you think?

DWarren (14:44.89)
to bring people to himself. I so it started in the garden and then we have the children of Israel who constantly rebelled against God. I mean, we're faced with calamity after calamity, but even after that, or in that, like the Lord was pursuing them. So it wasn't just exile and that's it. It was exile and then I'm going to bring you all back to worship me the way that I intended. I mean, like for him just to make that claim as a believer.

I just was, it's just, it's wrong. I felt like was a, the whole thing was like a red herring to be like, don't look at me, look at this. Like don't look at me, don't tell me what I can do with my platform. You do this with yours. So it just was, yeah, not quite blood boiling for me, but it was just like, come on, bro. Like, you know better.

Watch a lot of Ben Shapiro.

Dez (15:36.302)
Yeah, my man, the one say red herring, come on rhetorical tactic, right? Now is there, guess I'll play devil's advocate. right. Could he have a point that some people in the church are not necessarily skillful

Zak (15:39.947)
Yeah.

Zak (15:44.387)
You

Dez (16:03.283)
with how to apply the word in hard times. He didn't say that, but could we make a point for that? That some people may not be as tactical with the word, how to use it at the right time. And because of that, it could bring more sorrow than joy. Could that be something? Could that be a thing that maybe he's trying to get to like?

Zak (16:25.667)
Totally. Yeah.

Dez (16:32.351)
Bro, it just happened and you about to be like, the joy of the Lord is your strength. Could it be a thing where, in Proverbs 27, I think I wrote this down, it says, timely advice is lovely like golden apples in a silver basket. So could he be talking about the time? Sometimes it's just not the time to throw scriptures. Could that be true?

DWarren (16:58.731)
Yeah, I mean I would say,

Zak (17:01.653)
It could be. Yeah. I mean, that definitely happens, right? Where people are trying to do their best and they're, they might use a baseball bat instead of a scalpel. but you know, it just also had me thinking and, and I don't know, but like, is, is the background to this video that he's doing, is this a reaction to, him hooking up with that rapper? Okay.

Dez (17:28.337)
Yeah, it is. Right, Dee? It is, right? Yeah. Yeah.

DWarren (17:28.79)
Yeah, which is why I was like, this is kind of like a red herring, because he's mentioning natural disasters, which definitely deserve people's attention and their compassion. But that's not what started the conversation. So yeah. Yeah.

Zak (17:35.053)
Yeah.

Dez (17:43.484)
Yeah.

Zak (17:43.871)
Yeah, I almost think, I want to be careful how I say it because I don't know the man, but a lot of times, because I know my own heart, a lot of times when you're like, Hey, this thing's pissing me off because you're telling me scripture. It's probably because you're doing something wrong and scripture is cutting to your heart and you don't like it. So maybe he's got some good brothers around him.

DWarren (18:02.815)
Mm.

Dez (18:04.796)
Yeah.

Dez (18:09.033)
Mm-hmm.

Zak (18:13.591)
that are saying, dude, what are you doing? Like scripture says this, like, I'm just gonna read you one passage of scripture, all right? So he was quoting Romans 12, 15, rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep, right? So Romans 12 is kind of like, it's like a whole chapter on.

Dez (18:15.453)
Mmm.

Dez (18:21.951)
You're it.

Dez (18:28.009)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (18:33.492)
Yeah.

Zak (18:39.555)
Here's how to live the Christian life. And it's very just like bullets, like one after another. But verse nine says, let love be without hypocrisy by abhorring what is evil clinging to what is good. So it just makes me wonder when I hear that, it's like, all right, you're jumping to that verse to your point, Dwarne, like, are you just trying to shift?

Dez (18:43.797)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (18:49.919)
Hmm.

Zak (19:07.937)
because maybe somebody else is calling you out on your sin and you just don't like it.

Dez (19:14.971)
Yeah. Yeah, it it. don't. OK, so that's what I think.

Zak (19:17.037)
So.

Dez (19:23.879)
I think Kirk Franklin is, this is the result of trying to mix.

try to mix tradition with the gospel. Okay. So I think he is tired of Christians being Christians. You know what mean? I just think he's like, stop being so Christian about this. Like the word, certain things the Bible just can't, is not sufficient. He has a sufficiency problem. It's not even about the other Christians. He doesn't think the Bible is sufficient for all things in life.

DWarren (19:44.487)
Yeah, that.

Zak (19:57.537)
Yes. Yes.

DWarren (20:02.61)
Yeah.

Dez (20:05.619)
He does not think that. He thinks the Bible is exactly, he thinks the Bible comes down to it is only for this situation, it's compartmentalized. No, bruh, the Bible is, I heard someone say like 30 % of the Psalms is lamenting about sorrows in your life. You know what mean? People taking their things that there's burden them to the Lord and struggling with that joint And I think, no, bruh, you wanna do things your way, but God has-

Zak (20:07.563)
down to that a lot of times.

DWarren (20:19.772)
Yeah.

DWarren (20:25.02)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dez (20:35.433)
God has given his people, God has given his son Christ a bride called the church. And the church is the pillar of truth. It holds up truth. That's what we do. And you don't like it because you want fellowship with darkness. And the Bible says light can't have fellowship with the darkness. And you want to justify your way of this is okay because of this.

DWarren (20:45.746)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dez (21:02.855)
No brother, Bible is super clear on certain things and you trying to justify it. If you really wanted to help that young lady, she come to you like, hey Kurt, I know you've been a staple in the ... I'm really feeling this song and I love you, get on it. If you really loving her, it'll be like, nah sis, I can't do that, but I can teach you how to repent. And turn from that. You know what saying? And then maybe down the road, the Lord does something in your heart and we could do track after track after track after track.

DWarren (21:19.803)
Hehehe.

Dez (21:30.825)
But don't put the cart before the horse. Don't think that you gonna be missionary. Like you don't... I always tell the kids in my youth group, bro, the world will change you before you change it. If you put yourself in that environment. You not go over there and think they gonna change though, bro. They gotta come out of that. They gotta come out of that lifestyle so they can see the goodness on this side. Not you going over there. You know what saying? And I just think...

He has a sufficiency problem because he's saying the Bible don't have answers for this. When it does. When it does. It's just the... Exactly. Exactly. You're a daughter of his people, James. So it's like, no, the hard truth is the fact that national catastrophes and disasters have come because of sin. Let me talk to you about sin and why this stuff comes. That all creation is groaning.

Zak (22:07.469)
Friendship with the world is enmity with God, you know? Yeah.

DWarren (22:19.088)
Right? Yeah.

Dez (22:28.177)
Right? So it's a way that you can apply like a surgeon the right tool, the right scalpel or like a good doctor, the right medicine. But you have to be well versed in the Bible to know when to apply it. And I think he has a problem with sufficiency. do y'all think? I do y'all think I'm off with that? Do you think that's true? Do you think like, there's I don't know.

Zak (22:41.933)
Yep. Yeah.

DWarren (22:48.323)
No, I would agree. I mean, like, there was a, I think there was a clip of him maybe a few years before this, where there was a gentleman protesting his performance at the BET Awards. And the guy was like outside with a megaphone telling people and Kirk to his face that he needs to repent. And I think it ended in a confrontation with this gentleman face to face with Kirk. And he was like, this is not the way to do this. Trying to appeal to this man. Like he tried to, I think even at the end, he tried to

Dez (23:00.201)
Yeah.

DWarren (23:17.794)
shake his hand and the missionary or the pastor refused because he was like, what fellowship does darkness have with light? He's like, I'm not going to shake your hand. And I was like, that is that you have to be really convicted to continually tell somebody the truth to their face. mean, and you have to I guess you have to know that like the gospel, the truth itself is offensive. It's not us doing the offense. It's us proclaiming what is true. So I mean, like this is a this is a pattern of behavior for Kirk, unfortunately.

Dez (23:21.203)
Yeah.

Dez (23:25.014)
Yeah.

Dez (23:31.879)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (23:48.373)
And you don't win the world by becoming like the world. You win the world by not being like them at all. They need to see something different. You know what I mean? And you don't win it by coming ... No, man. I think people ... When Paul says, become like all men and saved so that all may be saved, he's like, what does that mean? And why don't people throw that out in this context? Why don't people just be throwing that, take that verse out, they rip it out of everything else he was talking about and say, see, Paul said I become ...

DWarren (23:49.399)
No, not at all.

Yeah.

DWarren (24:05.26)
Yes.

Dez (24:18.311)
all things to all men. So they may be saying, what is he talking about in that, Zach? And why can that be a fallacy in this conversation?

Zak (24:19.093)
Yeah.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Paul wasn't, hey, I'll become a drunkard to hang out with the drunks, tell them the gospel, right? Yeah, what Paul's getting at in that passage, if I remember it right, is he's talking about how does he deliver the gospel to different groups of people? So when he's talking to Jews, he's like, hey, man.

DWarren (24:28.993)
Yeah.

Dez (24:30.79)
you

Dez (24:46.184)
Yeah.

Zak (24:50.007)
I'm a Jew, I know that background, I know the law, like I'm gonna start there with you because that's our common footing. And I can sure get to the gospel. But if you're a pagan, maybe, you know, when he's at the, what's it called? The Mars Hill, the area, Apagos or however you say it, where he's, you know, he looks to, hey, unknown God, I'm gonna start there, you know, and I'm gonna get to the gospel either way. I think that's what.

Dez (24:55.678)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

DWarren (25:03.67)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dez (25:04.265)
Mars Hill, Apocalypse, yeah.

Zak (25:19.041)
what Paul's driving at. He's not saying, hey, I'm gonna sin with the sinners so I can share the gospel with them. Like, that's just ludicrous, right? Like, you know, we're called out of darkness to light. And this comes from the same guy that, how many lists do we have in Paul's letters of light? Here's all the people who are not gonna inherit the kingdom of God. So you're telling me he's gonna act like all those people to save those people? No, that's not what he's talking about.

Dez (25:24.234)
Yeah.

DWarren (25:24.584)
Right, yeah.

Dez (25:27.453)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (25:32.51)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (25:40.117)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dez (25:46.559)
Foolishness.

Zak (25:47.287)
He's talking about, yeah, how do I best get to the gospel and share the gospel with the different types of people that I'm around? Yeah.

Dez (25:58.591)
So we would kind of agree that he doesn't have a point. Yes, the wrong, it's the wrong point. Is his instruction biblical or worldly? I'ma let you cool down for a second and I'ma start with D. I'ma start with D on this one so I can let Zach cool down.

DWarren (26:03.035)
Yeah, or that is the wrong one. Like Zach said, yeah, it's the wrong one. Yeah.

Zak (26:05.963)
Yeah. Yeah.

Zak (26:18.723)
I'm gonna mute my mic.

Dez (26:27.199)
D is his instructions, biblical or worldly.

DWarren (26:29.577)
I would say worldly. I mean, I think I speak for all of us when I say that. yeah, it's just he throws our scripture out of context. So, you know, I would say it's worldly. Yeah, for sure.

Zak (26:49.411)
Well, you know, I was I was I was trying to find it it's is it James three or four

Zak (27:01.537)
Yeah, it's James 4-4, right? You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God. So therefore, whoever wishes to be a friend of the world sets himself as an enemy of God. So it's almost like, you know, based on what you told us about the background, the things that he's trying to get involved in, and then you see this kind of reaction, you know, on social media.

Dez (27:01.779)
This game's four, I think.

DWarren (27:01.865)
Mm.

Dez (27:09.813)
Mmm.

Dez (27:16.137)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (27:31.185)
Mm-hmm.

Zak (27:31.585)
to what Christians are telling him, you really can kind of see that of you're trying to be a friend with the world and it just naturally, you're not yelling at the world. Who are you yelling at? You're yelling at God's representatives. So it's really, I think it just fulfills scripture to show, yeah, if you try to be friends with the world, you can't.

Dez (27:43.342)
Mm-hmm.

Zak (27:59.629)
have it both ways. You're actually, it's gonna turn your heart away from God. So yeah, I think it'd definitely be praying for him to repent and, you know, see where he's kind of taking a wrong turn with all that.

Dez (28:04.66)
No.

Dez (28:14.621)
Yeah, it's true. Psalm 19 is talking about the benefits of God's word. And it starts in verse seven. And just listen to this to see if Kurt is off. I think he's off in his worldly. But listen to this. Listen to what God says about his word in Psalm 19. The instructions of the Lord are perfect, reviving the soul. The decrees of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise to simple. The commandments of the Lord are right, bringing joy to the heart.

Zak (28:17.827)
Mm.

Dez (28:43.731)
The commands of the Lord are clear, given insight for living. Reverence for the Lord is pure, lasting forever. The laws of the Lord are true. Each one is fair. They are more desirable than gold, even the finest gold. They are sweeter than honey, even honey dripping from the comb. They are a warning to your servant, a great reward for those who obey them. But don't throw scriptures at people. Look what God's word is saying.

DWarren (29:06.438)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (29:10.971)
about his work, nothing, all that is beneficial to us and our soul. because at the biggest problem all of us, all of us face is that we have, our souls are deeply scarred and marred, bro. That's the worst issue we have, not a hurricane, not any of that stuff. And that's what the gospel, that's the first thing the gospel go to. Your soul is corrupt.

Zak (29:15.477)
All sufficient.

Dez (29:38.153)
Bro, and you have to get there at some point. With all your evangelism and all your efforts of trying to defend the world and bring the world to know Jesus, you have to get to that point. And you can't get to that point without God's Word. And God is saying about His Word, it's good and it's true and it's trustworthy and it revives the soul and it's sweet and it's desirable. It's more desirable than money. This is God's testament about His Word. And we say,

DWarren (30:07.503)
Hmm.

Dez (30:08.649)
but it's not sufficient. That's not what people want to hear. Well, of course that's not what they want to hear. Of course that's not what they want to hear. Of course. Why would Glover really want to hear anything about God's word for real, for real? You know what I mean? Because it's only going to be convicted. What about that? What was it? Who was that guy that didn't want to hear from Elijah? He was like, he never says anything good about me. That King.

DWarren (30:10.309)
Hehe.

Zak (30:11.125)
Not sufficient for everything. Yeah.

Zak (30:21.493)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

DWarren (30:31.32)
Yeah.

Zak (30:33.987)
yeah, the one king. it might've been a, was it a? Might've been a.

DWarren (30:36.343)
Yeah, I was-

Dez (30:37.821)
Yeah, like he just, he...

I think so, but he never has anything, and he said, I hate him because he never prophesied that he ain't good. I don't want to hear from him. So he went and got another prophet that's going to tell him something nice. That's what this world wants. They don't want the true unadulterated truth. And if Kirk, go ahead.

Zak (30:41.281)
Yeah, he never has anything good to say.

Zak (30:59.415)
And I think that's just the fruit of, that's the fruit of what we've seen really in the last 40 years. I kind of pinpoint it like probably around the 70s and the 80s is where you had this whole like seeker, you know, let's try to look like the world, sound like the world. Let's not be as harsh. And to your point is it like that always backfires, right?

Dez (31:08.137)
Mm.

Dez (31:20.916)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (31:25.416)
Yeah.

Zak (31:25.537)
Like if you try to look like the world, sound like the world, talk like the world, guess what? You're gonna be the world, right? It's not gonna be the other way around. And you know, to the people that are like, well Jesus hung out with sinners and prostitutes? Yeah, he hung out with them and taught them about the kingdom of God and repentance, right? Yeah, he wasn't hanging out being like, it's fine, whatever you guys are doing, that's cool.

Dez (31:31.753)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dez (31:41.873)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

DWarren (31:44.95)
Yeah.

DWarren (31:50.913)
Right, yeah.

Dez (31:52.987)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, Dee, what do you think?

DWarren (31:55.516)
I'm trying, can't add anything more to what you both have added. Yeah, I mean, like we have to, we're called out from among the world, so we have to look different. And I mean, it's, yeah.

Dez (32:12.049)
It's true. You remember, I think it's 1 Corinthians 1.

1 Corinthians 2, starting in verse 10. says,

to explain spiritual truths. Here we go, 14. But people who aren't spiritual can't receive these truths from God's spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can't understand it for only those who are spiritual can understand what the spirit means. And in essence, what I'm saying is the natural man don't care about that stuff. He doesn't have the ears to hear and he doesn't have the eyes to see. He can't even evaluate that. He can't evaluate that.

So even in our attempts to win the world, we have to start from the point that they need their eyes open and their ears unplugged. And the only way for that to happen is to speak the truth. And the truth is a person named Jesus Christ, it has to start there. And when Kurt Franklin like, you throwing scriptures, I'm like, what else are we supposed to do? Bro, we only have one.

DWarren (33:45.63)
Yeah, this is, yeah. Yeah, the sword of the spirit. yep.

Dez (33:50.139)
offensive weapon in our repertoire. We have one and you said don't use that joint.

And you're by it. And you're frustrated because Christians are using our only offensive weapon to say, hey, brother, you may want to think about what you're saying. This has eternal consequences. First and foremost, you're giving this person false security because by you going on there, they may think I'm all right with God. Like I got Kurt Franklin.

DWarren (34:06.506)
Mm-hmm.

DWarren (34:18.909)
Yes.

Dez (34:21.203)
But God may be like, fool, your soul requires you tonight. Like this is serious stuff.

Zak (34:21.718)
Absolutely.

DWarren (34:22.226)
Yeah, yeah.

Zak (34:27.811)
And just to piggyback on that, Des, I've seen that in my own life even, where once people know you're a believer, they want your approval for how they live, which is interesting, right? Because it's like your whole worldview doesn't supposedly care about scripture or the things of God, and yet you want Christians to prove of what you're doing. And that's...

Dez (34:30.921)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (34:37.619)
Mm-hmm

Dez (34:43.688)
Yes.

Zak (34:56.301)
been my experiences, people will come to you and say, hey, I'm doing this thing or, you know, thought this or whatever the case may be, because they want, they want that approval, right? That's kind of like the end of Romans one, right? Not only did people love doing it, but they applauded those who did do them, right? Which I think that's why we're seeing such a push. Maybe I'm going off on a tangent. So,

DWarren (35:13.938)
Yeah, yeah.

Dez (35:23.87)
It's okay.

Zak (35:25.719)
why we've seen such a push even in the last 10 years with the whole LGBTQ movement, right? It's not enough to tolerate. You have to approve, accept, support this sin. You have to, right? Because, right, or else. And I think that's just the nature of sin in general. mean, I'm not saying us three are above anybody else, you know?

Dez (35:32.553)
Mm-hmm.

DWarren (35:36.262)
Yeah, conform. Yeah.

Dez (35:36.488)
Yeah.

DWarren (35:41.382)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (35:42.898)
or else.

Zak (35:54.977)
We've all done it, right? We've all had sin that we knew was sin and we're like, man, can't someone just say like, it's okay, right? Can't I just like do the one thing or say it in a way that like Des or DeWarn are gonna be like, yeah, I see what you're saying, right? But that's not how scripture is. Scripture is like, nope, it's always wrong, right? Sin is always sin forever.

Dez (35:56.393)
Mm-hmm.

DWarren (35:59.28)
Yeah.

Dez (36:01.673)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dez (36:08.849)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dez (36:16.98)
Yep.

DWarren (36:18.182)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dez (36:20.437)
Yes, yes.

Zak (36:23.083)
And that's for our good, just like you're saying, like in Psalm 19, like it's for our good that the Lord disciplines us and shows us these things. I mean, how many times have we talked about that, right? Texting back and forth where I'm like, listen, like the Lord is showing you this because he loves you and he wants to deal with it. If he didn't bring it up, then it's like, Hebrew says, like you're illegitimate children if you're not disciplined by God.

Dez (36:30.43)
Yes.

Dez (36:40.573)
Yes.

Dez (36:46.953)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Zak (36:50.049)
So I love the fact that you're saying too, Des, like, scripture is our only offensive weapon. Like, this is all we have, right? The Bible is it. And yeah, people just don't like the fact that it's scripture alone, man. This is all we need.

Dez (36:55.773)
That's it.

Dez (37:07.417)
It cuts between bone and marrow, bro. The Bible will not let you do what you want to do that goes against what God wants you to do. It won't let you off the hook. And we don't like that. And I've been there before. I've been there. I've been like, Lord, why can't you just accept this one joint? You know what I'm saying? Why are you so adamant about that? And that's when I was probably pretty immature and I was loving that sin. And then the Lord starts delivering you like,

Zak (37:14.839)
Yeah. Yeah.

DWarren (37:20.778)
Yeah

Zak (37:22.967)
Yeah. Yep.

DWarren (37:32.33)
Heh.

Dez (37:34.517)
Maybe that's why this trait is destructive.

Zak (37:35.191)
Yeah

Yeah, what's the Psalm that, I think it's David where he's like, when I kept quiet about my sin, it's like my bones dried up, right? And that's the conviction of God. Like you gotta do something with this because I love you and I want you to look more like Jesus, right?

Dez (37:45.939)
Yeah.

DWarren (37:48.388)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dez (37:55.709)
And isn't that such a great mercy? Paul Walsh has this saying when he says, you know, God loved Jacob and he hated Esau. And he says, well, how did God show his hate for Esau? And then he pauses and he says, well, he showed his hate for Esau by letting Esau do whatever he wanted and not stopping him. Esau, can do whatever you want. And God never stepped in and said, no, no Esau. God even said, I'm a blesher. I'm going give you, I'm still going to give you some children and some land and-

DWarren (38:09.38)
Yeah,

Zak (38:13.22)
Yeah.

Zak (38:23.201)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (38:24.565)
You're going to do your thing. But Jacob, he couldn't get away with his line of deceiving. it's coming back on you. Cause God had a plan for Jacob. yeah. You going to do some stuff and I'm going to override that because I got a plan bigger than you, but I'm a discipline you. You are a deceiver or you won't be deceived a lot in your life. It's going to crush you, but I'm going to be with you. I promise my presence. That's what Zach was talking about in church today, D. God's presence is the biggest blessing. And Esau didn't have that. He didn't have God walking with him. That's a dark place, bruh.

DWarren (38:24.97)
No, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

DWarren (38:49.336)
Yeah. Yeah.

Zak (38:53.623)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dez (38:54.505)
That's a dark place. And back to what we talking about, like, Kirk Franklin, this girl's in a dark place. And her, what her biggest need is not for you to do a track with her, but for you to give a gospel track to her. And tell her this is the gospel. This is the good news, right? And I think, I think that's, that's what kind of, I was angry watching that during a couple of times, cause I really love Kirk Franklin. You know what I mean? Like it's not coming from a place, like I love his music. It got me out of some deep places. I think this brother...

DWarren (39:01.752)
Yeah. Yeah.

Zak (39:06.485)
Yeah. Yeah.

DWarren (39:15.394)
Yeah, yeah.

Zak (39:16.255)
So thank you.

Dez (39:24.469)
I think he's a Christian. You know what saying? I think he is. I just think he is falling into that warning that God says, there's a love that you should hate. And that's the love of the world, bro. Do not love this world or anything in it. Just the less of the eyes, less of the flesh, prider of life. It's going and it's burning, bruh. Right? As Zach Kirk says, it's all going to It's all going to burn, bruh. Yeah. So I'm like, my heart breaks for him because I'm like

DWarren (39:32.012)
Yeah. Yeah. Proud of life here. Yeah.

It's all gonna burn. That's the motto.

Zak (39:44.547)
Yeah.

Dez (39:51.189)
Bro, you have an opportunity and a platform that many of us don't have and you're kind of squandering it for the approval of man, not the approval of God. That's the same thing the Pharisees ran into, bro. So I love them and I want the best for them and I'm praying for them. You know what I mean? But let's turn this attention to, not away from Kurt Frank, we'll use him as a springboard, but what does God's word say about helping people who are hurting?

DWarren (39:55.711)
Yeah.

DWarren (40:02.73)
Yeah.

Dez (40:16.987)
What does God say about helping people who are hurting? Let's go to the positive side. How can we help hurting people? People who are experiencing trauma and death or pain or suffering in their lives. You don't have to give us a particular scripture, but how have y'all done that? How have people done that to y'all? Anyway, you want to answer that question, it's fine.

DWarren (40:39.862)
I'm looking, actually I have a particular scripture in mind. After you said you don't have to get one, so nah, just give me a minute. Let me fill it up. Put on my reading glasses. Brother old,

Zak (40:40.887)
Deep Eds, you want to go first, brother?

Dez (40:43.541)
Yeah, but it's all good. Zach, you good?

Zak (40:44.874)
Alright.

Alright. Yeah. Well, I can go while you're looking that up. There's a couple things I think on that. Because we live in the world we live in today, where you can know about stuff happening on the other side of the world in a second, I think it can kind of create this thing of there is so much suffering out there.

DWarren (40:53.622)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dez (40:56.181)
you

Dez (41:07.882)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (41:16.085)
Mm-hmm.

Zak (41:17.315)
How in the world could I do anything to help? Right? But I think if we can narrow our scope when it comes to helping those who are suffering, I think it starts in your local body of believers that you're with. I think it starts there. I think a lot of the pastoral epistles and the church epistles that Paul writes are two specific churches going through specific things.

Dez (41:20.245)
Mm.

Dez (41:42.645)
Mm-hmm.

Zak (41:46.071)
and he's calling them to specific actions. Even in the book of James, we see the same thing, right? Where he's telling this specific church or the churches in that area, yeah, hey, don't show up and see Des suffering and say, hey man, I hope things turn around for you. All right, see ya. Like no, that's your brother right there. So do what you can to help him. So I think there does need to be hands and feet of Christ.

DWarren (42:04.98)
Yeah.

Dez (42:05.907)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Zak (42:15.459)
to our brothers and sisters in that community that we're in covenant with, I think you do need to have boots on the ground, so to speak, and act. But I think if all, this is the, I think this is the tricky part, is so much of those things can only be action with no purpose to point that person back to Christ, right? So like,

Dez (42:19.807)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (42:24.85)
Yeah.

Dez (42:43.464)
Mm-hmm.

Zak (42:44.931)
All right, Des is hungry, he needs a meal, he doesn't have money. Sure, I'll buy you a meal, then what? You just gonna go on your way and I can say, I can sleep good tonight? Hey, I gave Des a meal, you know, in Jesus' name. Okay, I think that falls short of the point. I think especially in James, he's saying, take your words and your actions and put them together, right? Put them together to live the gospel out all the while.

Dez (42:50.645)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (42:55.273)
Yeah.

Dez (43:03.731)
Yeah.

DWarren (43:04.883)
Couple of them, for sure, yep.

Dez (43:08.564)
Yeah.

Zak (43:14.741)
reminding us as other believers, like who you are in Christ, right? Who your identity is in Christ, where you're gonna be one day when this life is over. The Holy Spirit's helping you defeat sin. All these things, those are ways that we can be with those who are hurting. Those are my thoughts.

Dez (43:17.247)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

DWarren (43:23.187)
Yeah.

Dez (43:25.823)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

DWarren (43:34.289)
That's good, yeah. That's good, yeah. So I pulled up Philippians 2, even just starting at verse one. So he says, therefore, there's any encouragement in Christ, if there's any consolation of love, if there's any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion fulfill my joy that you think the same way by maintaining the same love, being united in the Spirit and thinking on one purpose.

Dez (43:35.347)
Yeah. Yeah. That's real. Go ahead, D.

DWarren (44:01.807)
doing nothing from selfish ambition or vainglory, but with humility of mind, regarding one another as more important than yourselves, not merely looking out for your own personal interests, but also the interests of others." And then he goes on to exalt Christ, I mean, like as he does throughout all of his epistles, but I mean, I think like that's, that is the heart of our mission as believers. That's how we, I mean, like Zach was saying, like practically caring for other people's needs.

Dez (44:04.501)
doing nothing from selfish ambition or vangory, but with humility of mind, regarding one another as more important than yourselves, not merely looking out for your own personal interests, but also the interests of others. And then he goes on to exalt Christ, mean, like as he does throughout all of his missions, but I mean, I think that's, that is the heart of our mission.

DWarren (44:31.554)
But I mean, ultimately pointing them to their greatest need, which is Christ Himself.

Dez (44:37.577)
Yeah. I mean, I was thinking like, our life point for today actually is in Joe, where it talks about, I'm just going to read it. says, you know, after Job is enduring this trial, some of his friends came to him and

DWarren (44:42.321)
Hmm.

Dez (44:57.959)
As most of y'all know, the best part of their kind of witness to him was when they were quiet. But it says, in Job 2 verses 11 through 13, when three of Job's friends heard of the tragedy he had suffered, they got together and traveled from their homes to comfort and console him. It was Elazephaz the Temanite, Beldad the Shuite, and Zophar the Nehemiah. When they saw Job from a distance, they scarcely recognized him, wailing loudly.

They tore their robes and threw dust in the air over their heads to show their grief. Then they sat on the ground with him for seven days and nights. No one said a word to Job, for they saw that his suffering was too great for words." So, you know, I was thinking about that with that question. I think the Lord, there is a ministry of presence, just being there for people, maybe not saying a word, not, not.

DWarren (45:49.39)
Absolutely.

Dez (45:57.985)
not demanding them to speak in that moment, not trying to be too... I hate to say I feel like I'm about to sound like Kurt Frank, but not being too over-spiritual, you know what I'm saying? Like overdoing it. You know what I mean? I don't know if that makes sense, but just doing the most. Kinda like this person just lost someone or...

DWarren (46:05.909)
Ha.

Zak (46:15.969)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dez (46:24.243)
something there or they just got diagnosed with cancer and they got six months to live. I don't know if that's the time to like anoint them and start speaking in tongues. You know what I mean? Kill the mood. You know what mean? Maybe it's just like, here's the thing. Here's the thing. If I think that stuff is true, if we're really living out what the Bible says about how we should love one another, that stuff will be supernaturally natural to us if we're doing what

DWarren (46:29.41)
I'm gonna kill the move real quick.

Dez (46:53.865)
The Bible says, and like Zach said, that stuff should be happening in local communities, the churches, the people that you've been with, that you've seen, that you've spent time with, you've been hospitable to, they've been hospitable to you. You know their life, you know the inner workings of their lives. They know the inner work of your lives. Your kids have been together. You've been through some hard times. That's when that stuff is real. That's when that stuff is like real and you you and it's in your face. It's just hard to do that when you don't know that person. I can feel bad for them.

DWarren (47:10.136)
Mm-hmm.

DWarren (47:19.17)
Yeah.

Dez (47:23.283)
You know what mean? Like, that sucks. But if I know you, know you the way that God calls us to be tender hearted towards one another and to be so close, it feels like we're one flesh, then I will know by God's power and his spirit how to deal with this. It won't be this super over spiritual, ethereal out there. It's right in your face and you can actually bear that burden because you love this person. You know I'm saying? Does that make sense?

DWarren (47:31.768)
Yeah.

DWarren (47:48.226)
Yeah. Yeah.

Zak (47:50.943)
Absolutely. Yeah, and I would say too, Des, I think you can also draw, I think you can draw correlation between the emotionalism that's so prevalent in our, you know, the modern evangelical church, where everything is, I'm trying to get this high, I'm trying to feel spiritual, I'm trying to feel good about myself. Everything is emotionally driven. So if that's the world you live in, and then you have tragedy,

Dez (48:10.899)
Yeah.

Zak (48:20.395)
In one hand, it makes sense to be like, well, all I know is emotion, so I guess I just need to feel this emotion, let this emotion out, have other people be in here with me, and we all just kind of feel it together. But you're never looking to that objective truth of what scripture says, right? So I think there's a lot of things that probably tie into this video that we're watching today.

Dez (48:33.567)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (48:41.577)
Yeah.

Zak (48:49.441)
where even in Job, I think Job is a good example, where they're kind of pulling different levers, right? Like what's the thing that's gonna help? And what happens at the end? It's when God shows up and says, okay, here's the objective truth. I am God, you are not, right? And I'm sovereign, you're not. And it goes on for like two chapters, right? All the things. And what is Job's response to that? My bad, I'm gonna shut up now, right?

Dez (48:54.301)
Yep. Yeah.

DWarren (48:58.222)
speaks.

Dez (49:09.673)
Yep. Yep.

DWarren (49:14.421)
Yeah, yeah.

Dez (49:17.203)
This is...

Zak (49:17.963)
In fact, I even repent because I got to the point where I said, I just want to plead my case before God. He doesn't know what he's doing, essentially. Right? So I think that's another thing that, that we can take away from this and hopefully your listeners can kind of just check themselves on. When you go to worship God, are you going to worship God? Are you going to try to get something from God? Try to get some spiritual high that's really

DWarren (49:21.87)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (49:25.301)
Yeah.

DWarren (49:41.518)
Yeah.

Zak (49:48.356)
It's not gonna help you look more like Jesus. You're just trying to get something from Jesus, right? Instead of Jesus actually changing you, and guess what? Usually Jesus changes you through suffering.

Dez (49:49.716)
Yeah.

Dez (49:54.143)
Yeah.

Dez (50:02.301)
Yeah, and most people be wanting a sugar rush emotionally. They just want something that's going to spike me up in that moment, boy. But be like, nah, you keep eating your veggies and you eat your fruit, drink your water, move your body. You know what saying? Like the simple stuff that's going to end the long run, it's going to establish good habits. And I think in Colossians 3 verse 12, it says this, trying to to the point of what I think we are talking about. Sorry, my daughter is screaming out of her mind.

DWarren (50:04.935)
Yeah.

DWarren (50:11.6)
Yeah.

Dez (50:31.057)
Verse 12 it says,

Be thankful. Verse 16, let the message about Christ in all his richness, fill your lives, teach and counsel each other with all the wisdom he gives. Sing Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs to God with thankful hearts. And whatever you do or say, do it as a representative of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks through him to God the Father. I think that's how you be there for people, bruh. I think those things laid out in the scriptures, like this is how you do it. This is how God wants you.

Zak (51:19.971)
Yeah.

Dez (51:26.985)
do or be tenderhearted towards one another. You know what I mean? And I just don't, and I think that we don't often think through that way. And another thing I want to say real quick and then we can get into other questions. This is something that bothers me. When he says like, life is messy, David's life was messy, David made his life messy. It wasn't like, it wasn't.

DWarren (51:44.552)
Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah.

Dez (51:52.019)
People say that all the time and I'm like, but there's also a time bro, when you got to go to your brother and like, bro, you making your life harder than it needs to be. You hurting because of what like sin in your life. Yeah. But they leave that part out. like, now Job is a different story, but if you want to talk about Jacob or Abraham or Moses and these guys. Now sometimes things just happen in life. You can't get away from, all gonna, Jesus is going to be sorrow in his life. But sometimes

DWarren (51:57.074)
Yeah, that's what Nathan did. Yeah, Nathan did exactly that.

Dez (52:21.109)
These people like us make our lives harder because we've been disobedient. And it comes a time like Proverbs says, Proverbs 27, five through six, an open reboot is better than hidden love. Wounds from a sincere friend are better than many kisses from an enemy. So there's also times where we have to be honest. And I love what Zach sent me this morning about the Doug Wilson and Joe Rincony, I think that's the name. They were saying like, it's times where you have to evaluate.

Zak (52:27.011)
Absolutely.

DWarren (52:32.071)
love.

Zak (52:45.271)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (52:49.491)
your loved one, when they come into you with this trauma-filled thing and you kind of like, let me step back. I mean, not be so emotional and think, is this true? Because there's three sides to every story. Your side, the other person's side, and God's side. So I gotta be skillful in how I help people hurting. I can't just be willy nilly, right? And that's what he was talking about. I just quote that Doug Wilson said, it was Spinal. He said,

DWarren (52:52.626)
haha

Dez (53:16.357)
Sympathy remembers to love God while loving your neighbor. Empathy abandons God for the sake of the neighbor and turns the neighbor into God. I'm gonna say it again. Sympathy remembers to love God while loving your neighbor. Empathy abandons God for the sake of the neighbor and turns the neighbor into God.

Zach, what do you have to say about that? Sorry, my camera went off again, but it's okay. What do you have to say? What do you think about that?

Zak (53:42.199)
Yeah, I mean, you got me thinking a lot about King Saul in this discussion. I happen to be reading through his life, you know, in my devotion time. And it is, it is that classic case of like fear of man, right? There's what God says to do and what the standard is. And he continually pivots from that to, well, this person scared me. Are these...

DWarren (53:45.361)
Wow

Zak (54:10.945)
guys were stressing me out so I made all these decisions. And when we are, there's always that temptation, especially because we live in such an empathetic culture, that there's always that temptation to, I want to enter in, and especially I think as men, it's like, well how do we get in there and fix it?

Right? This person's sad, how do make them happy? Or how do I give them the silver bullet answer that's gonna fix their problem? And especially in the Christian life, there are times when evil is done to you, or you have a really hard decision, or you're just in a hard season, right? Where it's like, nothing's really wrong, it's just things are hard, right? Like, I got kids, I got a mortgage, I got bills, I got work, and...

Dez (54:39.231)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (54:44.937)
Yeah.

Dez (55:04.404)
Mm-hmm.

Zak (55:08.583)
So I think in those moments, especially what other Christians need to do is come alongside that brother or sister and say, let me tell you what you may have forgotten. Or sometimes like we've said to each other before, even amongst ourselves, like, I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but let me remind you, just like Peter does in his letter, I'm gonna remind you of these things.

that it's still about Jesus. Like it's still about looking more like Him. It's still about pursuing Him. And sometimes, like the only advice is you just gotta keep going, right? It's just like, how many times are we just kind of like that? Like, Dorn, this is hard and I just wanna quit. Okay, well, brother, yep, I get that. I've been there, but you can't quit, right? I'm gonna pray for you.

DWarren (55:59.368)
Can't do that. Yeah.

Zak (56:07.287)
Let's go grab some coffee and then guess what? You gotta get back in there. Right? Like I'm with you, get back in there, right? And I think so much, there's just so much tied up in this idea of like the empathetic response and this desire, especially in our culture, of if there's anything that's suffering or hard, it must mean that it's bad. And I've got to get away from it. And that's just not...

DWarren (56:08.082)
back in there.

Dez (56:08.692)
Yep.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Dez (56:32.436)
Yeah.

Zak (56:37.075)
Christian life like to Christian life is struggle and Suffering and there's highs and lows right there's times of blessing and like this is awesome but we're always grown in the valley and and I think so much of us especially counseling each one another as we go through this is like brother I'm with you in the valley God is still good and Keep going. All right, just keep looking to your shepherd

DWarren (57:00.988)
Amen.

Dez (57:03.453)
Neh, man.

Zak (57:06.081)
and get back in there, you know?

DWarren (57:06.524)
Yeah, that's good.

Dez (57:08.155)
Amen. Amen. Last question. One minute response. It be almost at an hour. One minute response. Here's a question. Should we throw scriptures, quote unquote, at people who are hurting? Why or why not? Should we throw scriptures at people who are hurting? Why or why not? Rapid fire, D'Wan.

DWarren (57:10.942)
mercy

DWarren (57:28.466)
We only got a minute, throw. It depends on that definition, throw. I think we should gently redirect the hurting to the truth that scripture offers. Especially to another believer that our suffering isn't meaningless. To somebody who is not of the faith that God's love is directed toward them and that this is his call for them to seek him. So I think it's good to agree with people.

Dez (57:43.401)
Mm-hmm.

DWarren (57:58.492)
But there never should be a moment where we are not speaking truth from God's Word.

Dez (58:05.907)
Yep. That.

Zak (58:09.035)
I would say yes and no. think, totally agree with what Dbebs is saying. I think there's a time where I'm not going to throw the word. I'm going to bring you the word, right? Like, just to remind you of this, let's keep going. Let's pray together. But sometimes I think there is a time to throw the word. And I think, I think the word would say that's a rebuke. Right? So when Paul met with Peter and he was being a hypocrite, he didn't say,

DWarren (58:18.322)
and lose.

Dez (58:20.906)
Mm-hmm.

DWarren (58:36.744)
care.

Zak (58:37.901)
Let me gently, no, he came in and said, what are you doing? Right? Like he rebuked him. So I, and even scripture tells us all scripture is read out by God and one of the uses is rebuked. So I think there is a time to quote unquote throw in a rebuke. but we just need wisdom to know when to do that and when not to.

Dez (58:40.154)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

DWarren (58:46.654)
Yeah.

Dez (58:52.264)
Yeah.

Dez (59:01.301)
Amen. I'm gonna read ours right then, 2 Timothy 3, 16 through 17. says, So, like you said, yes and no. Yes, because throwing the scripture is throwing God's word. It's doing what God says and it tells us,

DWarren (59:25.63)
Mm-hmm.

Dez (59:30.581)
which true and is telling us what's wrong with our lives. It corrects us and it teaches us. It also exhorts us. So yes, we should, but also don't forget Proverbs 27 when it says, let me get to it. no, Proverbs 25, 11, timely advice is lovely like golden apples in a silver basket. Throwing the word or giving the word at the right time is beautiful, but using it to tear down.

a brother that's hurting, genuinely hurting is never good because Joel Brothers did that as well. So like we don't want to do that. Right. So thank you guys for coming. Dbevs will be back. Zach will be back. He had the Life Podcast show. We like to our thoughts through God's thoughts and we like to our ways through God's ways. We like to filter our perspectives through God's perspective. This has been your boy, Dez Oots. So thankful to be back. I pray we have many more.

DWarren (01:00:07.038)
Thank you, man.

Zak (01:00:10.595)
Thank you, brother.

Dez (01:00:30.011)
Zach, say bye to the people, sir.

DWarren (01:00:32.286)
Grace and peace to all of you

Zak (01:00:33.101)
Goodbye people. Don't do anything stupid.

Dez (01:00:34.607)
Dbebs. Dbebs, say bye to the people.

Dez (01:00:41.342)
Cool, cool. Alright, see you next week. Hopefully, gentlemen. Peace.