LIFE Podcast Show

[00:01] Dez: Welcome to the Life podcast, where we offer real hope to real people dealing with real life. We filter our thoughts through God's thoughts and our ways. Through God's ways. We pray you're blessed by this podcast. Enjoy the show. Podcast living Intentionally for eternity people, you know, we like to filter our perspectives through God's perspectives like to filter our views through God's views. And we like to filter our ways through God's ways. Today I have a show for you. Martin Luther King once said, the ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. One of the biggest controversies we face as Christians on this side of glory in our present culture is homosexuality, gay attractions, same sex attraction, and same sex marriage. Now, we've ultimately made same sex marriage legal, but I want to take you back in time today to some clips, some audio. If you want to look in that video, you'll be able to share, you'll be able to see it with me. But 2004, George Washington Bush wrote in a law to ratify that same sex marriage would be banned, that people of the same sex would not be able to be married, and if they did, it wouldn't be illegal sanctions with all the rights that comes with being married. He wanted marriage to be what God says marriage to be, which is between a man and a woman. And it was a big outbreak. And Larry King, who I do respect from CNN, had a couple of people come on. He had a Congresswoman, he had the governor of California. He had a gay man who was in the acting business named Chad. Come on. And he had Pastor John MacArthur. If you don't know who John MacArthur is, he's a pastor in California. He's been Pastoring Grace Community Church for about 50 years. He's later in age. His cup is being poured out. It looks like he on his last part of his life. He's about 84 years old. Faithful man, has some questionable things that he's done, but he's been faithful to the church. Christ's witness. He recently just had a spout with the government over COVID. So I just want to share with you some things that he talked about and how he held the line even in 2004, when this was becoming right, when this was becoming more and more adamant and the conversation around same sex marriage was picking up. This was before I was a Christian, so I'm just kind of privy to this. That's why I'm going back in the archives. But again, today's episode is based on the thesis and the premise of Martin Luther King's quote, the ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. So I want to play a couple of clips today and I want to compare and contrast I want to compare and contrast what faithfulness to the Lord looks like and what cowtowing to the world looks like from a pastor. So this is all from a Christian perspective, dealing with the church and how we should deal with the world on controversial topics such as this. Because God has spoken, right? God has spoken about homosexuality, and he has not been silent. God has spoken about sexuality. He has not been silent. And it's in his word, and we know it. It's just applying it and saying it with grace, truth, and love, but sternness warning people, urging people to turn from that lifestyle and serve Christ because he's mighty to save. Amen. So the first clip is John MacArthur's first initial response to the question, what is the consequences? What are the consequences or some of the consequences to same sex marriage? So this is his initial response. I'm going to play it. I'm going to shut my mouth and we'll go from there. All right? So again, Drama Gauthur is responding to the question. He's responding to the question, what are the consequences of such a thing? All right, maybe go.

[04:47] Larry King: John MacArthur, what is the irreparable harm of gays being married?

[04:53] John Macarthur : Well, I think there are a number of things that we need to talk about. One is it would destroy the family. I mean, obviously, God designed the family to be a man and a woman, to produce a child. It is the DNA. It's the genetic structure of civilization. If you don't have that, you don't have civilization. So you're striking it at the very core of its existence.

[05:13] Larry King: But what does the state have to do with that? God can do it, and as a religious person, you can practice it. But why should the state be involved in a marriage?

[05:22] John Macarthur : Well, typically, the state has always been involved in a marriage. And I think that because the state's responsibility is to uphold what is right, to uphold righteousness. I mean, it's in the fabric of human thinking to understand a man and a woman make a marriage and a family. God has put that in the very thinking of people. It's in the heart. It's there. The state upholds that standard, always has, in every state in every human history factor of human history.

[05:47] Larry King: Do you favor.

[05:52] Dez: So you hear you heard some initial thoughts from Dr. John MacArthur. He went to it rips apart the family. It devastates culture. It brings judgment, right? It rips family apart, the family apart, and it devastates cultures. It rips at the moral DNA that God has instituted into the world and has been the crux of all civilizations since time began. All civilizations knew that if you stop bearing children, which a homosexual couple would do because they cannot reproduce after their own kind, two men cannot have sex and reproduce a child. Two women cannot have sex and reproduce a child. Only a man and a woman can have sex and reproduce a child. That's the way God invented it. That's the way God intended it, and that's the way God's going to make it happen. Any other way just will not happen. That's how God has ordained it. And that should be enough. That should be enough. I just love how he was just straightforward. Larry King asked the question and he was flat footed, held the line, and he didn't compromise what he had to say, right. And I thought that was a beautiful exchange. So going forward with this, let's hear the response of let's hear the response of this guy named Chad. So his name is Chad chad, I forget what his name is, but he's a gay man. He was an actor. He came out the closet proverbial a couple of years ago. Well, in that time, I guess, 2002. And let's hear what he says about why he wants rights as a gay man to marry his lover and what it's based off of. All right, so let's hear what he has to say. Give me 1 second. Mute my mic.

[07:54] Larry King: And Chad, why do you want to be married? Why do you want the right to be married?

[07:58] Man: You know, I'll be honest with you. If you'd asked me this question a year ago, I wouldn't care. I said, why do I want to get involved with that institution? Why would I want to ultimately wind up having my things decided by court and where they go? And then I fell in love a year ago, and he's on the road right now. When I wake up in the morning, I miss him a lot. I miss him right in my belly. And for the first time in my life, I started thinking about this institution of marriage and what my parents talked about and about building a life with somebody else. And when I woke up today, the president told me that I couldn't have that president said he would turn the Constitution around and make it a document of exclusion and tell me that I'm a second class citizen. That's not okay.

[08:36] Larry King: What's wrong with a civil union where a state says, you're entitled to all the benefits of marriage, you're just not married?

[08:44] Man: The bottom line on that for me is we had that debate in this country. We already decided as a country that separate but equal was not good enough for us. If that's the case, then it sounded we all stood up and again proclaimed that separate but equal is not good enough for us in this case. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. You're finally going to tell me that it's okay. I can have those same legal benefits that you've allowed everybody else who wants to declare their love, but then you want to tell me that I'm second class because I can't call it marriage. That's not good enough for me.

[09:12] Dez: Congresswoman must so you heard what he said, you heard what he had to say. He struggled with this and then he fell in love. He fell in love. I don't know what it really is, but I know at our time, my generation, if you throw that line out there, it seems like the conversation just ceases. I don't know if you all experienced that, but somebody says, well, they love each other and then they say it in a way very featherly and they breathe very sigh and they look at you with tears and eyes, they love each other. And it almost seems like that has to be the end of the conversation. And as Christians, we have to acknowledge what love really is. And you don't want to go into if you have three minutes in a car with someone and they say that you don't want to go into a whole theology on love. But we do know that first John talks about a love that God's hate, that God hates. He says do not love the world because the love of the world produces love of the flesh, lust of the eyes, pride of life. He said don't love that. That's the love that the world produced. And he says do not love that. As Christians, so we know as Christians that our love is agape, is sacrificial love. It's a love that gives, not takes. It's a love that's righteous. It's a faithful, gracious, true love. And as Christians, we know that because we have the spirit of God in us. And one passage says, God's spirit in love. He poured out his love on us, in our hearts, which has us call out abba father, Daddy, daddy. That's what true love does. It reconciles righteously, an enemy to someone who's saving that enemy, right? So I think his response was very emotional and he's building his argument on, hey, right, because we don't make laws based on people's feelings. We make laws based on what's right, what's righteous, what God has said, and what permeates and what prospers the civilization and feelings doesn't do that. And it needs to be the majority, not the minority. I mean, the LGBTQ community is very minority, but they have much power because they're unified right now. But we're starting to see even know, losing this further because you have people that's like, that's gay, that's like, I ain't with that trans stuff. And people who's gay saying, man, I hate what they're doing with children. So again, Jesus'word comes to my mind when he says, kingdom divided will not stand. It can't stand, right? And if you are in unity against rebelling against God, it's not going to stand. Take them back to the Tower of Babel. There was a united effort to rebel against God and God had to stoop down to their high building that they were building up to heaven to show human ingenuity and innovation. And we got this god had to stoop down to see what they was doing, and he caused confusion. And that's what God's going to continue to do, because the Earth is the Lord, the whole world is the Lord, and the Earth is his footstool. God will not allow wickedness to continue to prevail. Now. He will permit it, but ultimately, at the end of the age, it will be dealt with. Sometimes in earth, sometimes in time, but then it may be at the end of time, right? So his argument was kind of all over the place. It's kind of all over the place. So from there, this is one of the last parts of this section that I want to deal with, with John Mcgoth. And I think this is one of the best parts because he's going to flat footed answer this question to a man that's calling in Larry King, actually let him call in on A-Q-A. And this is a man from Washington, DC, where I live. And he's talking. He's just asking why in the world if people, two people love each other and can raise children and taking a child out of a bad area and bringing them into their house and they raise them and they give them shelter and good life and good education, why in the world are we trying to stop that? What is the matter with that? And for extra emphasis, the person he's talking about is his son. So when you have those situations as Christians, when someone's talking about a loved one who's practicing this, you do have to be very methodical and understanding and not caving in, not compromising, but understanding that this level of conversation is going to be emotional because this is a loved one. This is someone's son or daughter that they love, and they feel like their rights are being taken away and they judging their child. So it's a lot of anger and vitriol in those situations. You just got to ask the Holy Spirit to help you in those moments. And I think John MacArthur is going to model it so well. So I'm going to share my screen again, and I want you to really hear how he answers this question, because I thought it was amazing. I thought it was strictly amazing. So I'm going to play this. I'm going to mute my mic, and then we will go from there.

[14:23] Vlad: This is a question for Congresswoman Musgrave and Pastor MacArthur. I'm a father of a gay son and a grandfather. My son and his partner have been in a committed relationship for eight years. They have adopted two biracial, high risk, unwanted babies in the District of Columbia. They are a wonderful family. What in the world is wrong with this family that should prevent the parents from being married? Shouldn't they receive all the support that society can provide?

[14:57] John Macarthur : John, I'm not denying that. On purely a social level, those children will be better off being cared for by somebody than being left in some foster situation or even worse. I would never deny that. I'm back to the bottom line, which is that kind of a union is sinful before God.

[15:16] Larry King: But the acts of they're doing are not sinful. They're raising two children who didn't people didn't want. That's a wonderful thing.

[15:23] John Macarthur : That's the good part. But the context in which that happens is a context that advocates and flaunts the sin of homosexuality.

[15:30] Man: But even if that is the case and listen, we'll all find out at the end of the day, can't we let God decide that?

[15:37] John Macarthur : Well, God has already decided that. I mean, it's in the word of God. It's unmistakably clear.

[15:41] Man: Why are we so worried about what are we so scared about? Why all this trouble to prevent me from being able to accept these privileges while I'm here, if God will ultimately.

[15:49] John Macarthur : Take care of it? Let me answer that personally, please. Because the Bible says in no uncertain terms that no homosexual or adulterer will ever inherit the kingdom of God. The question's not open.

[16:01] Larry King: That's correct. Supposing then Chad doesn't want to enter the kingdom of heaven is right?

[16:06] John Macarthur : I think he does.

[16:07] Larry King: Don't think, don't you?

[16:08] Dez: What if he does it absolutely.

[16:12] Man: And if that's the case, great. But however, there may be people that don't. And I don't want this country governed by the word of the Bible. I don't want it. Yeah, but let me just be open to people who believe in all kinds of things.

[16:22] John Macarthur : But the Bible says that no sinner and it's a category more than just homosexual, whoever entered the kingdom of God. And then it says this but such were some of you, but you've been washed, you've been sanctified through faith in Jesus Christ. This is the great message of Christianity. We're all sinners. Not just this, but there is forgiveness and the kingdom of God is open.

[16:41] Dez: So you heard what he had to say. I thought that was thorough. I mean, I'm applauding because I think he not only dealt with the question thoroughly, but you hit a compassion on the back end. He says, Let me talk to you personally, Chad, because all this other stuff is getting in the way, all the other rhetoric and people's emotions and people's thought, but let's make this personal. And I remember when I used to go, when I was in college and I had to have these conversations, I would try to lock in on the person that I was talking to and make it very personal. That none of these other people that's around and throwing and jerry at me and mocking me, saying I'm stupid. Who does he think he is? I should punch him. I mean, I've heard all of that stuff, having these conversations because it gets dicey and I often was alone, but God was right there with me. But you do need to have this personal like you're dealing with someone's soul. You're not just dealing with their ideologies and their thoughts. We don't fight against flesh and blood. It's spiritual powers out there. So we're dealing with things above our pay grade. And we need the Holy Spirit help on how to adjust and how to talk to that with compassion, vigor, conviction and grace. And I think John MacArthur did that well. Alistair Begg said this. Alistair Begg said this. He said, because of the Bible, I cannot affirm a homosexual person in their lifestyle. He said, but because of the Bible, I also cannot hate a homosexual practice in their lifestyle. I'm going to say it again. Alistair Begg says, because of what the word of God says, I cannot affirm someone's homosexual lifestyle. He said, but because of the word of God, I also cannot hate that person that's practicing a homosexual lifestyle. And I think that's a perfect balance because you have people. I remember my man Josh told me about a guy that was at Know. He has a microphone airphone and he country. You old gay people are going to hell and judgment is coming and raining fire, and he's just preaching the Bible. And that is not how we're called to evangelize. We are not to draw a scene. I'm all for open air preaching, but our words is supposed to be seasoned with grace. And even though you give someone the disease, which is sin, you also need to come alongside and give them the antidote which is Christ. Amen. So I love the way that John Mcgarthur dealt with that. And let's go to that passage really quick. Let's go to that passage really quick. It's one corinthians six. One corinthians six. Let me share my screen for those who are actually watching. If you're not watching, you can just hear me read it. He quoted one Corinthians six, starting in verse nine. He says, don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be deceived. No sexually immoral person, idolater adulterer or males who have sex with males. No thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God's kingdom. Verse eleven. And some of you used to be like this, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Again, people who have homosexual lifestyles can become Christians. They can be born again, they can be born again, and God can make them new. Two corinthians. 521 or 517. If any man is in Christ, he's a new creation. Behold, the old is gone, the new has begun. That's a reality. And I love the way John MacArthur dealt with that and saying, this is not the end of your hope, because you don't have to stay like that. There's forgiveness and grace in the face of Jesus Christ who will save you from that lifestyle, restore you from that lifestyle, and then you can turn around and tell other people that's in lifestyle you found something that's true, that's real, that's not counterfeit, that's not purposeless, that's not deceitful. You found the real thing, and he's worth it. That's the call of the gospel. And that's the beauty of Jesus, that while we were yet sinners, Christ came to die for us, for the homosexual, for the **** addict, for the liar, the gossiper, the thief, the idolatra, the drunkard, the abusive person, the violent person. He died for it. Choose him today. Choose him today. Now, that's the good part. Now, I know some people have seen this clip, and I didn't want to talk about it for a while. I didn't want to talk about it for a while. So here we go. Now, remember what Martin Luther King said. Remember what Martin Luther King said. Let's go back to our quote. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Now we're going to see another pastor, and I know some black people get mad at me. Marvin Sapp, oh, never would have made it. He saw the best in me. Actually, God did not see the best in you because he says while you were still enemies, he saved you. So that song is so wrong on so many accords. But it sounds good. He has a nice voice. It's emotional. I get it. But Marvin Sapp, who's a pastor just like John MacArthur, had an interesting conversation with Vlad TV where they asked him the same question what is your thought on Christianity, homosexuality? Easy question. I mean, that's a softball. Just say what God's word says about it. You only have to do all that. Look, let's take a listen for those who are on Apple. Let's take a look for those on YouTube at how old Marvin Sapp dealt with this question. It was confusing to me. For sure, it was confusing to me, but I want to see what you all think about it, and we'll kind of go from there because this is some crazy stuff here. So mute my mic, and then I'm going to let you all have it. All right, give me 1 second. What is your thoughts on homosexuality and Christianity?

[23:02] Marvin Sapp: I don't know if it's against the church. I just do know that there are some biblical things as it pertains to everybody has their own particular theology. And I'm going to say that some people's theology has evolved as it pertains to homosexuality being in the church. And when you study the Bible, you would know to notice that that was a problem or was an issue in the church in days of old. Anyway, from a scriptural standpoint, my position is I'm a heterosexual man. I believe in a man and a woman being together. I'm not going to say nor will I ever put anybody in heaven or hell because of what they decide to do because that's a God decision. He's going to decide where people end up based upon their lifestyle. And I preach what I believe, and I simply believe that all of us have sinned and come short of the glory of God. And the reality is that whatever you are, you can be born again, period. And that's what the Bible declares. I say, Well, I'm gay be born again. Well, I'm straight be born again. The reality is all of us are supposed to be transformed by the renewing of our minds and that transformation will bring about change. I just think that people how can I say this? Sometimes they try to use the church to justify the reason why they are the way they are. Growing up in a Christian home I grew up in a Christian home. I was still out doing what I was doing, but I came to grips with the fact of who I was supposed to be in God. Nas X decided to go, so obviously.

[25:14] Dez: You heard his and I tried to play the whole thing, so I wasn't just sound biting, try to give you a whole take on what he said. The question was pertaining to Liz Nas X and his vitriol towards the church and how they treated him and things like that. And it led to the question on Christianity and homosexuality. He says some okay stuff. I'll give him credit. He said, you need to be born again. Amen. In the beginning, people have different theologies. That wasn't a question. He ain't saying nothing about no theologies. And then in some clips he's talking about some people evolved and other people haven't. And we need to find a way. To find a way to do what? Why is it so hard to answer the question? And it's not hard because you saw another pastor do it, right? So one person says, do what God says, and God will do what he has said. Another person says, be obedient to God and leave the consequences up to him. Be obedient to God and leave the consequences up to him. Remember, John McArthur said, God has already decided the manner. God has already said what he has said about homosexuality and sexuality in all the land. And you have to know, and this is how we're going to close the show you have to know that we like to filter our perspectives through God's perspectives, our ways through God's ways, and our thoughts through God's thoughts. So with that being said, what has God said as far as homosexuality in that practice? Everybody think, I'm going to go to Leviticus. No, I'm not. I'm actually going to go to Romans One and deal with who's really sovereign and controlling these things and how God views it and what God says about it, right? And how this could be a sign of judgment, how God given someone over to that lifestyle without them wanting to repent and give up on that lifestyle even though God is calling them and creation is telling them this is not right. God's going to talk about what that looks like. So let me share my screen one more time and I'm going to read Romans one starting in verse. I think it may be 18. So listen to this. It says, therefore verse 24 therefore, God delivered them over in the desires of their hearts to sexual impurity so that their bodies were degraded among themselves. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshipped and served what has been created instead of the Creator who is praised forever. Amen. For this reason, God delivered them over to disgraceful passions. Their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. The men in the same way also left natural relationships with women and were inflamed in their lust to one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty of their error. And because they did not think it worthwhile to acknowledge God, god delivered them over to a corrupt mind so that they do what is not right. Jump down to verse 32. It says, although they know God's just sentenced that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them, but even applaud others who practice them. My brothers and sisters, you can be flat footed on this topic by the way. God has empowered you. And I know I'm sitting behind a camera, but I've been in that field and I've had to deal with that and I've had my brush ups and I've learned from them. Sometimes I was a little too harsh. Sometimes I compromised and I had to learn how to balance that thing out. You don't just tell someone the disease any good, doctor. You don't just tell someone the disease they've contracted. You also give them an antidote. You give them hope that you can be healed from that. Again, we can't affirm people's homosexual lifestyle because of the Bible, but we also cannot hate them for their homosexual lifestyle because of the Bible. It's that mysterious violence that's there, right? So our thoughts and our world words need to be seasoned with grace, right? But you can be courageous and say flat footed. This is what God's word says, that if you continue down that road, I'm repentant, god will give you over to that sin and you will die the second death and you will spend eternity in hell because you chose sin over the glorious God. Remember, we can testify to this because as one Corinthians Six says, some of the people in our church were just like that. And we can point to them and say, no sir. No ma'am. You actually can be delivered. You actually can be new. You actually can be transformed. And look at this testimony right here. Listen to that testimony right there. Let us testify. Come to my church. Let us testify about. The goodness of the Lord. How we've tasted and seen that he's good, that he can deliver the lowest of the lowest and humble the highest of the highest. All of us the same in this drink. And I think Marvin SAP says something right. We all have fallen short of glory of God. Present it that way. But when you're asked the question flat footed, answer the question like John MacArthur did. This has been the Life podcast. I appreciate you all so much. We like to filter our thoughts through God's thoughts. Filter our perspectives through God's perspectives. Filter our ways through God's ways. God. Take it easy, y'all. Dad's. Oops.